joining us now is liz holtsman who voted to impeach the then president richard nixon when she was a memberhouse judiciary committee. liz, i want to go to the second thing he pled guilty to, the false statements. it was on february 1st of 2018. i think once you are in this soup, you would figure out more lies -- if there is one thing mueller's investigation is showing is they are detail oriented. >> but i know from having been da, if you gave criminals an iq test they wouldn't score at the top and that is why they get caught. >> and putting that aside, the other stuff goes back years into defrauding the united states. they are talking about tax stuff. and this is like a lot of other things trying to squeeze somebody and you get them on other things. obviously the hope here is that gates who is close to the rnc and the trump campaign and in particular very, very close to paul manafort who was in that june 9th meeting at the white house, this is all meant to say give us good stuff on manafort and you will spend zero time to very little time in jail. >> uh-huh. i think that is what happened. t