joyce vance, what do you think? >> i think absolutely. they would have gone back to the potential candidate for the office and asked him to explain the photograph. and then they would have gone to his future boss. there is no doubt that the fbi would have discussed that and what i think needs to happen now is we need to have access to that fbi report and see what it reflects. >> ned, with your experience with these kinds of background investigations, the fbi has that photograph for over a year. now, would they have shown it to john kelly? >> absolutely. i agree with joyce. john kelly have been derelict if he didn't go back to the fbi and say, why is it that this senior white house official my staff secretary, doesn't yet have aer. the security clearance? and i think at that point, the fbi would be certainly within their right to show john kelly those photos and those photos would tell the entire story. >> ruth marcus, joyce vance and ned price, thank you. we'll have more in the rewrite tonight. there is breaking news in the senate where t

joyce vance, what do you think? >> i think absolutely. they would have gone back to the potential candidate for the office and asked him to explain the photograph. and then they would have gone to his future boss. there is no doubt that the fbi would have discussed that and what i think needs to happen now is we need to have access to that fbi report and see what it reflects. >> ned, with your experience with these kinds of background investigations, the fbi has that photograph for over a year. now, would they have shown it to john kelly? >> absolutely. i agree with joyce. john kelly have been derelict if he didn't go back to the fbi and say, why is it that this senior white house official my staff secretary, doesn't yet have aer. the security clearance? and i think at that point, the fbi would be certainly within their right to show john kelly those photos and those photos would tell the entire story. >> ruth marcus, joyce vance and ned price, thank you. we'll have more in the rewrite tonight. there is breaking news in the senate where t

joining us now is joyce vance for the northern district of alabama. e, this is a lot to absorb, thank you for helping us understand it. >> sure, happy to be here with you. >> i'm going to ask you to stay after we take a break because i want to talk to you more broadly about what we learned from the conspiracy. there is so much in it. i want to ask you about this breaking news. i was not expecting to see that we were getting not exactly new charges but allegations of new criminal conduct against paul a manafort tonight. what do you make of this including the timing? >> it's awfully interesting. one possible conclusion is that this means mueller concluded a plea deal with gates and gates is giving them new information but also really interesting because it could be a prelude to no longer permit manafort to be on bond and instead him being held in custody pending trial. that could be interesting. it could certainly mean they meant business. >> as far as i can tell, again, i'm not a lawyer. i look at the way this is described to the judge. this seems like

could be mueller signalling to them it's time to come in and cooperate if they ever intend to. . >> joyce vancermer u.s. attorney from the great state of alabama. joyce, clear and chilling, as always. thank you. really good to have you here. >> thanks. >>> all right. lots more questions and apparently news that continues to develop over the course of this evening. stay with us. we'll be right back. let's begin. yes or no? do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet? do you want $4.95 commissions for stocks, $0.50 options contracts? $1.50 futures contracts? what about a dedicated service team of trading specialists? did you say yes? good, then it's time for power e*trade. the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. looks like we have a couple seconds left. let's do some card twirling twirling cards e*trade. the original place to invest online. we are the tv doctors of america, and we may not know much about medicine, but we know a lot about drama. we also know that you can avoid drama by getting an annual check-up. so go, know, and take control

. >> let's take your point and pass it over to joyce vance to bring it home as i know joyce is so good at doing intellectually. because joyce, david just committed to a phrase, people without values, and that itself is a value judgment. walk us through the difference between that which people from both parties who have done some very unsavory things have done things on behalf of putin and mueller's probe not whether someone might see it as a values deficitor whether they lied in a federal investigation, or they committed quid pro quo for government actions. how do you take 2k5i6d's categories and apply it to what mueller's doing? >> mueller can only prosecute people for committing federal crimes. he has to have evidence for prosecuting those crimes. he won't be prosecuting people for having bad character, he won't be going on a witch hunt. it's a very specified process, the interesting thing ari, is you know that federal prosecutors love to talk about going up the chain, from the bottom of the operation up to the top. i think we're going to have to replace that idea that mueller instea

here to talk about all of it, joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. i am reminded by you that hope hicks has already had her interview with the mueller team. having established that, what kind of legal jeopardy, and we know her denial of this, what kind of legal jeopardy could she be in? >> so the central question is whose version is correct? mr. corralo's or mrs. hicks' version? she's already had her time being questioned and presume when i she would have been questioned extensivebly whether she was aware of the trump tower meeting of whether she was involved in the air force one memo that was britain concealed the real meeting of that from the public. so she's locked if and that's an important thing to note. then it will come down to who do we believe? and we've learned that mark corralo spoke to three people contemporaneously at the time of the phone call that he alleges he was on. he spoke with steve bannon. he contacted the legal team and he resigned shortly there after, believing he was probably in legal peril himself spoefl seems really compell

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a former federal prosecutor. ank you for joining us on a friday night. let's start with this memo, joyce. there are some legitimate national security concerns tied to these memos but the white house seemed to dispense of those concerns in its decision to release the nunes memo, the republican memo unredacted. now they seem concerned about the response. >> right. you know, it's so important to contemplate what this memo really represents. because the larger issue involved here is a national security issue. the fisa court is the place that the justice department and law enforcement goes when they're dealing with matters that is a significant risk to our national security. you know, the fbi and the intelligence community, they've done an amazing job since 9/11 of not letting the bad guys get through, whether that's terrorism or whether that's a challenge like the one the russians face to us with these sorts of spying operations. i have enough prosecutor dna in me that i don't want to see anything compromised, the int

attorney joyce vance is back with us. she spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. okay, julie, you get to take the big swing at the first question here, and that is significance of what happened today. this guy and why we're about to hear the name skadden arps more. >> those are great questions. significance for today, most reporters in washington said this is a name we haven't heard before. we must just be looking at the tip of the iceberg. >> it wasn't in one of your baseball cards you follow? >> i wish i could tell you it was, brian, but it really wasn't. it seems we're following a tangent from a tangent. we know this person, alexander van der zwaan, communicated with rick gates, a deputy of paul manafort, who worked on the trump campaign. you have to follow each little bread crumb to get to the white house here. it seems like a tangent to us from the outside. really, when you look at the communication, what is involved in this document today, the context starts to come to light. part of it what they laid out in court today is that skadden arps the law firm that

i'm joined right now by joyce vance, former u.s. attorney. m fascinated by the way in which it looks like robert mueller is proceeding. let's start with the fact he brings out the russia indictments on friday all by themselves. somebody said that is to establish the underlying crime, and then from there he will go, if he has it, to make a case against the americans for colluding with this underlying crime, and perhaps going on to the obstruction charge, that there was obstruction in prosecuting these charges. how does this fit into a potential larger web of indictment, as you see it, joyce? >> there is a lot of speculation about what mueller's strategy was with dropping this indictment on a friday. i think it's safe to say that mueller indicted these 13 individuals and three companies because he had evidence and facts that indicated that they had violated federal law that they had engaged in a conspiracy to defraud the united states. and so he indicted them. you can't draw conclusions from an indictment. it doesn't necessarily mean mueller is

joyce vance, a busy news night.ving me. >> we're going to fit in a break and show you more nancy pelosi. we'll be right back. with expedia, one click gives you access to discounts on thousands of hotels, cars and things to do. like the papaya playa project for 49% off. everything you need to go. expedia. if you have moderate to severe or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicid

. >> let's bring in joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, currently professor at the university of alabama law school. joyce, what jumps out at you? >> the biggest question that i have after reading through this indictment is what the source of this information is because it appears that mueller has very detailed information about how this russian troll farm for lack of a better term, worked. so you have to wonder, did he have someone on the inside there, did it come from e-mails? he got information from facebook during the search warrant process, but whether any of this came from people who despite rod rosenstein's indication that no one today is involved in this indictment from the campaign, was there, in fact, cooperation in that regard? >> joyce, let me ask you why now? why this much information on a friday, an hour or two before the president departs for florida? >> that's a hard question to answer. i don't think any of us know what's going on in the mind of the investigators. but i want to go back to something that chuck rosen

for more what it could mean for the investigation, i'm joined by joyce vance, former u.s.ttorney for the northern district of alabama. start on the idea of queen for a day. what happens there. >> this is a session that sometimes is called more technically a proffer session. it's a chance for the prosecution and the potential cooperating witness to get to know each other. so you have to understand that at this point, this potential cooperator who is also a potential defendant has a lot to lose by being candid with the government. so he has the ability to come in and tell the prosecutors everything that he knows with the promise that it won't be used back against him unless he lies or takes the witness stand and says something contrary to what's in the proffer. this is an opportunity for the government to test drives the witness and see if the testimony will bring value to them to give them the opportunititon investigate it and make sure it's truthful, and ultimately, if both parties are satisfied after they kick the tires a little bit, they'll conclude a plea agreement. >>

joyce vance, former u.s. attorney joins us from birmingham. joyce, always good to see you.ere you watch this, this is about a fisa application that the fbi does not grant. it's important to point out. those come from on high and not the fbi. >> so there seems to be some almost deliberate ignorance coming from the white house and maybe from the hill about what the fisa process really looks like because you're right. decisions to grant fisa warrants are made by judges on a special foreign intelligence court. these are judges who are appointed by chief justice roberts and the process because it's deliberative but involves national security information is very carefully conducted. one of the things that detractors from the fisa court like to point out is that the court grants a very high percentage of the warrants that the justice department brings to the court and that's actually not a negative. what that high percentage of grants reflects is how carefully these processes are vetted inside of the justice department. they're vetted on the fbi side of the house. they're vetted i

joyce vance, talk about the legal impact.pped, when these indictments dropped on friday what was your first thought? what's mueller doing? >> it's a tremendous indictment. the level of detail in these 37 pages of what prosecutors like to call a speaking indictment because it tells a story as much as identifying charges that are brought against a defendant the level of detail is cautionary tail for the 2016 election and what we might expect going forward and it's an interesting question. natasha talks about the timing. we've talked a lot over the last few days about the fact that it's unlikely mueller will get jurisdiction over these russian individuals and companies. they won't be brought to the united states to face trial so people ask why do you go through the exercise and in some sense it's naming and shaming. it's letting the russians know we're fully aware of what happened with this immaculate level of detail but it also begins to socialize people in our country to understand that a crime was committed and that we are, i

here to explain more, former federal prosecutors joyce vance and barbara mcquaid.bara is also an msnbc contributor. good morning to you both. barbara, do these changes signal to you, these charges, do they signal where the investigation is going? >> we saw new charges come in against paul manafort. not in terms of new counts, but new narrative about some of his lobbying activity with further extensive relationships with european politicians, which is sort of some interesting intrigue. other thing that's new is in the virginia indictment, talked about how paul mrt seemed to be sort of desperately trying to generate cash by getting false mortgages and loans on some of his properties. when you will couple that with some of the reporting we've seen already about offering a free briefing to a russian oligarch about the trump campaign and perhaps owing a large debt to a russian oligarch, it does suggest that all of these financial crimes might be related to links to russia as well. >> okay. so joyce, manafort released a statement. here's what it said, not with standing t

. >> peter baker, ashley parker and joyce vance, thank you so much for starting us off. we're grateful. whether we come back, the memo donald trump and devin nunes never wanted you to see. we'll explain it to you and how it directly contradicts the gop smears of the fbi. >>> also ahead, the republican party is officially dead. the convention meant to celebrate c celebrate conservatism attacked his own, he once was a party only because he was black. he'll join us with reaction. if you're 65 or older, you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia that can take you out of the game for weeks, even if you're healthy. pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that in severe cases can lead to hospitalization. it may hit quickly, without warning, causing you to miss out on the things you enjoy most. prevnar 13® is not a treatment for pneumococcal pneumonia... it's a vaccine you can get to help protect against it. prevnar 13® is approved for adults to help prevent infections from 13 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia.

joyce vance. with us at the table, chris whipple, authors of the gate keepers. how the white house chief of staff defines every presidency. nick. jason johnson, politics editor for the root, and elise jordan, former aide to the george w. bush white house, rand paul, and she missed yesterday's conversation. let me start with you, matt, because you contributed to the reporting about tensions with jared kushner, president's son-in-law, and white house chief of staff john kelly being at an all-time high. this seems like a standoff where they both cannot win. this is zero sum. either john kelly rules the day and his edict, his new policies for background clearances apply to the president's son-in-law jared kushner, and he loses his interim status, or jared kushner wins and i don't know how john kelly stays in that job with any authority. >> well, look, you're absolutely right about the tension here. the white house put out a statement yesterday night and said kelly has the utmost confidence in jared kushner and that none of these changes should have any effect on his

attorney for the northern district of alabama joyce vance. joyce, let's start with you.e read it. is it a bust? why gatorade on the lawn? >> you there, joyce? >> i am. so the memo is really a stark rebuttal to everything that we saw in the nunes memo. the takeaway after you finish reading it is that the republicans when they put together their memo left out so many important details -- >> what's the most important? >> probably the fact that the steele dossier was not the basis for the fisa warrant that the fbi sought. >> joyce, can you clear something up? there's people that i respect that are attorneys that are republicans that are just dumbing down this process so much and one of the things that insults me the most is that when they say oh, well, these judges didn't know the nature of opposition research. this professors a complete ignorance in the process and suggests these fisa judges aren't -- don't have clerks that haven't read this all this a thousand times that don't find the weaknesses in the petitioners' memo and the judge is like "okay, i see here this could b