ecd activation shall include. it has been pointed out to me that there's a sentence that's been move this had couat could perhaps a little bit more clarifying, that all of the factors will not be present that was in fact in an older draft. so i guess the question really becomes whether you -- again, you want to reemphasize, restate additional language in .e, and again, if we do -- not massively clear, written analysis to include recommendations regarding policies, training, equipment, ta tactics and position. >> so i know we've asked the chief to explain things, but the dpa mentions the department of justice, the recommendations for the discharge review board. this is a similar -- so you're just making a similar recommendation here that the doj has said we should include in our ois, right, reviews? and i understand you guys went to seattle. [please stand by for captioner switch] >> it spells out everything. >> commissioner turman: it's redone tant -- redundant. is there an issue? >> it's just redone tant. redundan

ecd activation shall include. it has been pointed out to me that there's a sentence that's been move this had couat could perhaps a little bit more clarifying, that all of the factors will not be present that was in fact in an older draft. so i guess the question really becomes whether you -- again, you want to

it's not a projectile that's been fired, an ecd. and the stakeholders would like it prohibited altogether. the department would like the option to use that mode but not in pain compliance. >> commissioner turman: why do the stakeholders want it stricken altogether. >> it's considered a pain device. >> commissioner: it's a torture device. >> and the dpa does have an alternative suggestion where the use is limited to completing [indiscernible] when deadly force would be permissive. >> commissioner turman: commissioners, item number three. drive [indiscernible] >> commissioner: the dry stun mode doesn't incapacitate it it's just to inflict pain. i think amnesty international has deemed it a form of torture. a torture weapon and the united nations. >> commissioner turman: i'm not going to have any call-outs from the audience. madame, i'm finding disruptive. that is your first warning. >> the studies also show it doesn't incapacitate people but makes them angrier and can escalate the situation i don't know why we have to allow a dry stun

an officer may activate the ecd when a subject is -- he would like those sections to be rewritten ine manner in which he is suggesting. now, i would remind we should accept language sept -- except for number three in this pattern and the rationale for why three would change for aclu recommend one circumstance for authorize u use when there's immediate physical injury to the officer or another person or threatening to cause immediate physical injury to the officer or another person under circumstances which cause the officers to be relieved the subject has the intent and capability to carry out that threat. vastly like number three -- or one of the points commissioner hirsch is advocating. the coalition on homelessness requests the policy used is standard, risk of bodily injury term. the dpa recommends only one all-inclusive circumstance for authoriz authoriz authorized use for the behavior will cause bodily harm. one circumstance. they recommend adding even in the above threshold even if it's met, officers are prohibited from deploying an ecd unless another option will be effective i

we've agreed to do the summaries as part of the ecd review board process. >> commissioner turman: who objects to leaving this the way it is? all right. thank you for that. all right. there's issues in the 5.02 as well as the appendix. our straw poll and how we will vote after public comment is on the general order as follows. it will be an as written but use of electronic weapon. it will be -- we will eliminate the definition of assaultive. we will allow the drive stun load to remain. we will add in the section and take out the department's language and add in commissioner hirsch's suggested language, we will leave as is except we will add the word schizophrenia as an example. we will -- >> page nine the coordinator. >> commissioner turman: we will add in the coordinator position and role and responsibility and for number seven, i cannot read my own handwriting. >> remove the language requiring admittance to a medical facility. >> commissioner turman: yes. eliminate the language requiring notification only if there's a medical facility. if there's serious bodily injury the [indiscerni

policy update and the crisis intervention field tactics training and training authorized to carry ecds. and after completing the training would ensure all officers operate from the same baseline of training and also that incentivized take the training to have the weapon at their disposal. i'd like to say we support the removal of the language of assaultive and as well as the amendment proposed by commissioner hirsch. thank you very much. >> commissioner marshall: thank you. good evening. >> good evening, julie tran and behalf of the bar association. i was a member of the use of force working group. i can tell you as mentioned, we considered tasers to be a separate issue to have its own policy should it ever be enacted. i agree with him on that. we're one of the last cities to adopt this weapon therefore we have the opportunity and responsibility to learn what other cities have not learned as we have undertaken this important research. everybody's worked hard on this. this say messy process. i really thank the commissioners for looking at what's been submit and working hard on this toge

if you look at the statistics and the rankings that o to ecd puts out -- oecd puts out, you'll see that the u.s. is in the middle of the pack somewhere. the key is to be nimble in public policy, to use the government to address the contextual issues both globally and locally and to devise public policy accordingly. we haven't done that. we haven't done that because particularly since the reagan administration we have used government to devalue public policy except for a relatively their row segment of the population that -- narrow segment of the population that nancy has addressed. >> okay, great. nancy? >> yeah. i would say a couple things and one that i didn't mention but that's very important, i think the single most important finding of my research is that the architects of this effort -- particularly i'm talking about charles koch is and james buchanan -- both of them understood that libertarianism was a permanent minority cause that most people did not want. as soon as people understood what that libertarian dream world is, most people back away from it and reject it and would try