: right. >> and so -- but it's a very challenging question cane ca. >> commissioner moller caen: i'm just wondering -- what i'm getting at is if this population were enrolled in cap, would they not be going through this process of getting their water shut off because they'd be able to afford theoretically, and i know the answer is not that simple. >> i think the answer is yes because cap has very strict rules about payments. so one of the reasons that only one cap customer was go and do that or fill out the form. >> but they are going to end up showing up at the office any way. >> no, we don't go to their house. we just go outside and turn the meter off. >> commissioner moller caen: it just feels like there's some connections that could be made between, you know, the cap program, the -- you know, the water shutoff piece, this work with the mayor's office to really support these people who are struggling to pay their bills and what that could look like. i know the data challenges, but just -- i agree. yes. yes. >> i completely agree. >> well, i think it's a brilliant idea. i didn'

. >> commissioner moller caen: thank you so much. it's so helpful. i'm curious, on one of those slides, something that simone was talking about, i'm trying to understand this actual population and what's going on because there was that one graph that said that they were not enrolled in cap, but we also heard there are not a lot of people who are eligible who are enrolled in cap, so it makes me wonder how much information you actually have on this population. i assume these are low income people, and they're not paying because they can't afford it, but i didn't see that. is that true -- and then, i appreciate that you need to get a little more data on them, probably, to let us know that. >> so a lot of the data that simone was able to pull was from the census. the data for the shut off purely comes from puc, so the census doesn't track, for example, you know, if someone's water was shut off, so knowing their age, gender, racial identity, we don't have that info. all we really have is, you know, are they cap, are they enrolled in cap, what's their addr

. >> commissioner moller caen: so that leads me to ask, and i don't know if we could ever get a handle on it, what would these programs or what are these programs costing us? i'm sure that's not an easy fast number because of many elements of it, but i would be curious to know, perhaps, at the end of all this discussion, we can come up with that because i think that's a perfect -- you know, that's something to put into the mix. >> absolutely. that's a great suggestion. >> commissioner kwon: okay. anything else? so we're going to go into public comment. i have two before me. >> pardon me. i don't mean to interrupt you, but john scarpulla who will share the additional fees on shutoff work. >> good afternoon, commissioners. john carpulla with the policy and government affairs team. >> john, before you start, i just wanted to -- about the cap program, one of the things that we're really focusing on working with the mayor's office is to get a dedicated source to help fund this because we know that with prop 218, this may be problematic -- >> president keane >> commissioner moller caen: and