the director general of the world trade organization joined me from geneva to discuss the next step. welcome to the program. >> my pleasure. >> let me just start with a big sort of fine the eu levied against google. $5 billion in punitive levies there. of course, the united states president, donald trump, who thinks the world is taking advantage of the u.s., is saying this is more evidence of europe taking advantage of us. do you think this is true, taking advantage? do you think it's likely to set off more tariffs? >> i think this whole episode actually demonstrates what we have been saying for quite some time. we need to update the rules of global trade. this is part of the trade scenario. we have in the particularly digital world, a whole range of new practices, new business practices, new challenges that are unregulated on a global level. these kind of different views -- the eu has privacy and content. the u.s. has different views. other countries have different -- we need to sit down and harmonize that somewhat. while we don't do that, these kind of instability and unpredictabil