secular ethics have flourished since the 18th century and even before, he talks about david hume, immanuel kantn't seem to get any real importance to other secularists. i don't think that's true at all. i have great respect for enlightenment doctrines and it is clearly the case that our unfortunate situation poltically right now is the consequence of something of a marriage between his old stories. the enlightenment doctrines upon of which countries like england are founded. i'm a scientist with many published works and so i'm perfectly aware of, despite the criticisms of that particular philosopher, perfectly aware of the utility of the scientific and enlightenmen approach. but to think that humanist values, let's say secular values, have flourished for a long time and then to call that 200 years only means that that philosopher and i have very different ideas about what a long time is. i'm an evolutionary biologist by the way, not a poltical philosopher, my timescale is thousands of years, not hundreds of years. your timescale is thousands of years, but i wonder how you then conceptualise the