fellow at the harvard school of government following in the foot steps of sean spicer and corey lewandowski, just call it harvard kennedyool of government the lowest bar of any college on earth. it's like the failed entrance for any trump administration members. if you celebrate a person who put babies in cages and give them a speaking gig, a book deal and have them replace meghan mccain on "the view" in five years. we don't care if you put babies in cage, you will be rewarded because that's a revolving door of d.c. politics. so guys, come on now, i scratch my back, i scratch yours. what should happen is she should be shamed, mocked, ridiculed and made uncomfortable for as long as possible until, chris, she actually does apologize for it and engage in rehabilitation. and that requires proactive work. >> yeah, i think that's a good point, norm, there, about this sort of the idea here being that you have to sort of be called to account for what you did, right? there has to be some public reckon, and not sort of slide past what happened. it's not a permanent idea. but just the idea of social opprobrium extending until you