bob cummins? david: my mother's oldest brother.nd he was radicalized at the university of michigan and the day he graduated in 1937, he d two of his friends ralph efhus and alvin service took a boat across france, a train to france to the spanish border and climbed over the push he's to fight in the international brigade against franco in the spanish civil war. brian: what was motivating him? david: ideology, politics, hatred of facism. most of the americans and canadiens who went over there had some -- or 2/3 of them had some affiliation with the young communist league. and so you can say that that was financially what brought -- they didn't make money off this, of course, but that's how they got there, and what was driving them was a belief in a and r egataliaran world hatred of facism. brian: what happened to him after that? david: he was there from 1937 until the americans were sent home a little bit before the war ended with franco defeating he loyalists, the republicans. and he came back to ann arbor with elvin service and th

my grandparents, my mother, and bob cummings father, andrew adair cummins, was born on the side of aill in northwestern kansas. went through the whole struggle of the depression as a young engineer, bounced from city-to-city, trying to get work. he started sort of, you might say, as a modestly country club republican and was not radicalized but became an fdr supporter during the new deal and all of that. but i would say where my mother and my uncle got it was from the times. i think you can compare somewhat the period from 1934 to 1939 to the period from 1964 to 1969. a lot of young people were being radicalized by the events of that era. not everybody, obviously. both then and in the 1960s, there were more young republicans than there were radicals. but it was a radicalization process of a lot of people. brian: if we can do this quickly, i just want for context purposes, at one point in the book you say seven moves, four kids and the blacklist. david maraniss: yeah. brian: where were the seven moves? david: well, from the time he was fired in detroit, our first move was to coney isl