in one study from bates college test optional schools in crete where they didn't increase their role and up under represented by more minorities by the average of 6 to 18 percent that's a big joe which means tells me and another study of a 1000000 students 2 thirds of test optional college is attractive in rolled more diverse applicants which means that the essay to you is like you said it's weeding out those folks that i guess don't look like me. take you. and here is the thing so like i said the guy who created this out on her purse and while he later and his life was like no reason is bad it doesn't change the fact that it put into an entire system and place that ended up really being dysfunctional for a lot of kids whether you're a woman whether you're poor i mean it the way it describes people the things that does it's weird but i think we have to tell the associate dean for equity and justice at the university of pittsburgh who wrote a really great piece on this in the conversation. said students of color with the least advantage in terms of wealth don't need saviors they need

not only had he prepared it, but he used it in a speech, i think it was at bates college a couple ofre. the way bernie asked it you would hope would have had the candidate respond in an emotional, almost outraged way. because bernie got some criticism for the question. but instead, michael gave a policy answer. it was his position and it was accurate. but it didn't reflect the emotion that you needed to reflect when that kind of question was asked at that time. >> but this is what's interesting about it. when we sit here, it sounds easy, almost. well, of course you should be emotional for the emotional question. what do you do to prepare newer candidates, and we have some that are going to be speaking next week who haven't done much of this, what do you do to prepare them for why it actually is so much hard where you get out on that same under the lights with potentially over 10 million people watching? >> you have to devise a process that will fit the needs of the candidate. when hillary clinton first debated in the senate race against rick lazio, the famous one where he handed her

vance received her bachelor's degree from bates college and a j.d. from the university of virginia law school. john malcolm is the vice president for the institute of constitutional, institute for constitutional government and the director of the mese center for legal and judicial studies at the heritage foundation. he also serves as chairman of the federalist society criminal law practice group. in 2001 to 2004, mr. malcolm served as a deputy assistant attorney general in the department of justice. he received his bachelor's degree from columbia college, my alma mater and a j.d. from harvard law school. barbara mccade served as the u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan, from 2010 to 2017. she also served as vice chair of the attorney general's advisory committee, and co-chaired the terrorism and national security sub committees. she is currently a professor from practice at the university of michigan law school school. ms. mccade referred her batch already's degree from the university of michigan and the j.d. at the university of michig