i mean, there's a fabulous quote in a bloomberg article today citing alan greenspan, and he said often times when you look back in hindsight at the last sort of cycle, you'll notice that the last move was an unnecessary move in hindsight. and that last move in this one would have been a hike so why not go back why not cut rates at this point? >> i think everything jim said, look, he's a very smart guy. he's right i just think that particular train of thought is early. we theed to be data dependent. we are seeing some wage inflation. i think that that wage inflation could be very positive for the economy. it's got a lot more money into the middle class earners' hands. that can generate some organic economic growth. so my point is, yes, i see everything he sees but i think we have to be patient. this federal reserve, this process we've gotten into where the federal reserve is running to the microphones every time we see one piece of weak data, i think is wrong and i think markets are getting the wrong reaction it's a pavlovian reaction that doesn't make sense to me so a little bit of pat

the template really should be the greenspan template of 1995 were you gradually go in and reassess. maybe skip a meeting, go to the next meeting. that is well understood by the markets, within the fed. if you want to really start the -- 50 int and so on july would really get the party started. i just don't think that that clarida,liams, powell, a notch or they are capable of making the jump. vonnie: looking forward to seeing with a statement says tomorrow. >> it will be very exciting. vonnie: john herrmann, always a pleasure. don't forget, bloomberg television will have full coverage of the fed decision statement and news conference as it happens tomorrow from 2:00 new york time. we have a brexit update. a tory leadership update. the lateston has won round of the u.k. leaders race. dominic rob has been eliminated. he won 30 votes. boris johnson won 126 votes. , the latest to lose in the contest. jeremy hunt all the way at 46. michael gove, 41. the u.s. government cracks down on big tech. the vimeo ceo joins us. this is bloomberg. ♪ vonnie: this is "bloomberg markets." i'm vonnie qui

you know a few favorite teams in the bundesliga and outside of that there is no doubt the years greenspan yelps coming listen to what i call site can really get when it's legal to put this league on how many teams are there really to to exactly start premier league easy the harder league. in this league up to 3 teams only england or germany i'll tell you off the guy because. i think that's a trend in the autumn when this media in that in a minute to. really. get back with some of their some of them want to stake a fan base the fan base it on the status is a place where you least they have something good going on in germany with the youth development to the german challenge where your brother while the will of the british think you. are right there waiting for the move on we're going to get on our way. i see the stadium see what's going on there usually the fans got their pre-game before the big game. we are on our way to the stadium there it is working their beautiful now dormant player itself has said that the big secret is actually nothing worse than the premier league this is the premi

but then the result of that is that markets became completely zombified and dead then you had the greenspan put the bernanke you put the janet yellen put the jay powell put so every single fed chairman has come in and they've squashed price discovery in favor of price manipulation j. that 7 ok right i can come up with 30 years this is a mark manipulation so. are you a frickin moron that's my question jay how do you even walk down the street without forgot your face and smashing it i mean you're obviously a complete imbecile jake layton so market manipulation of via the federal open market committee and the various central banks around the world of course has resulted in the stock. boom this week because market participants are betting on up to 4 rate cuts by december so here's ahead life on wall street here's my prediction if the fed doesn't cut rates 3 or 4 times by december 11th markets are going to. stock market and corporate bond markets are in lala land pricing in an economic boom they're not seeing a rate cut economy so why would the fed because the fed's boller just said this week th

we cherish allen greenspan. i guess we have to wait to see what happens.ed about the uncertainty? >> there is always uncertainty. >> uncertainty is always there. >> everyone is acknowledging and focussing on the uncertainty it is less dangerous. >> we talk quickly here. if koepka tees off first, he is not hitting into tiger. he is ahead of tiger so tiger doesn't have to worry about him hitting over his head. i had to think about it. no one caught it. >> you have been thinking it the -- >> u.s. open is not that big a deal at pebble beach or anything. >> at your house >>> when we come back, this morning's stocks to watch. let's take a look at the biggest premarket winners and losers in the dow. this morning, we are leading the way, exon mobile and chevron, the two top components of 1.2% and 1.1%. stay tuned. >>> welcome back to "squawk box" the futures have been indicating up. dow futures up by about 91 points. the nasdaq up by about 40 points. this comes after the second day of losses registered yesterday although they weren't massive losses yesterday. gree

the markets have these expectations that are this strong there's not been a time at least since greenspan ran the fed. when the fed didn't actually capitulate the markets >> if we come out, let's say we have a strong jobs report tomorrow morning and then for the next month if that starts to turn >> sure, i can tell you, kelly, when you got -- you have to string together a lot of ifs it doesn't work that way the momentum at least in the short term is still downward >> there's the dow up about 90 points on the back of all. >> coming up, good-bye to robo calls. and five below may have to be sibew.x lo >>> instead of waiting for your uber, how about waiting for your helicopter to get to the airport. it's your piano. hold this for a sec. we don't have a piano. no.. but the neighbors do. just ok is not ok. especially when it comes to your network. at&t is america's best wireless network according to america's biggest test. now with 5g evolution. the first step to 5g. more for your thing. that's our thing. mno kidding.rd. but moving your internet and tv? that's easy. easy?! easy? easy. because n

forward for the democratic party for the last 40 years, i think since milton freeman and hayek and greenspanls set the agenda and discussed taxes as theft, as taking away from the rich and redistribution. just talking about the language we use around taxes is that sort of left -- sort of right wing, sort of ideology of it. we need to change the story of what taxes are. taxes pr wh taxes are what you contribute to the population so everyone can get what they need to get. we build roads, we build schools, we take care of the sick and the dyeing and the children, right? this is all of our responsibilities. and we talked about it. this is the new deal consensus, the progressive mixed economy. we used to have this understanding of taxes as sort of a shared responsibility that built a community and i think increasingly we see taxes as a handout and goes to people who don't deserve it. this is where the democrats i think really need a story and to convince people that the government does good stuff, your problems are not immigrants coming in but your problems are people evading taxes. the very weal

. >> it's no different, i suppose, than greenspan saying irrational exuberance and the market going up for another four years before it imploded. >> yeah, right, three and a half years, something like that it's true, you know, and i think this is a little bit more well defined in a sense i mean, you can see as companies get into trouble and they can't cover the interest payments and they can't refinance and they get play clockblocked out of th, that's a process that happens and i think that you can kind of watch it as it happens and see if stocks are ignoring it or if they're not. >> jimmy, the notion is if you get a move higher in rates, and you get a further move lower in the economy, you have a potential issue of companies being unable to service their debt you have what whalen suggested could be a high-profile bankruptcy as that moment that leads to what he thinks could be a credit crisis, his words, not mine >> yes, those are real possibilities. i want to be careful for all of us i think we'll agree that painting a picture of where a particular asset class or the economy is going

isn't that obvious to everyone so now, say to yourself, okay, we're in a situation where ever since greenspan and every fed chairman after has had to pay more and more attention to the stock market, not just for the signal that it might have for what's going to happen in the economy, but actually for the impact of stock prices, the wealth effect, and what that means for people's spending decisions. if we're being honest, let's just say that, yes, it's kind of silly that maybe the fed comes out and changes its tone based on what stocks are doing but then let's also say, actually, maybe they have to >> right and they've done it probably three or four times. >> they're also buying back a lot of their stock, too, they're buying now more than ever so they are paying more attention on that front as well. >> i think what's happening now goes well beyond what's happening in the stock market. you acknowledge that, right? you're going to put major league tariffs on our two biggest trading partners, you threaten essentially a serious disruption to the north american supply chain. >> you're right. >> do

they ignore present conditions and lay out a course, or they get really stringent in areas like greenspann't know that they could have said anything else. i think we read too much into it >> i worry about -- >> the fact that they pushed back doesn't mean as much as we're thinking it does. >> right i will tell you what i think, which is that i think that the fed ought to somewhat manage these expectations because if they don't deliver, then the market has to readjust and you get a volatility or you get a down draft in the market -- >> aw, isn't that horrible, taking risk in the markets unheard of no, it's not that. >> you now have two -- >> you know -- shouldn't lead investors by the nose with a hook sorry, it's not a good idea. they paint themselves in with these words. >> agreed. and so, if the words are misinterpreted by the market, i always think they ought to -- >> right. >> -- say a word or two -- >> no words, no misinterpretation. maybe let people figure it out for a couple of meetings. >> so, you now have two volatility factors you've got what's the fed going to do and you've got t

since 1983 when alan greenspan and president reagan at that time try to negotiate a fix for social securitywe have known for 30 years this day was coming. one day this knew thing would be bankrupt because of the baby boom bubble and here we are. within a decade by anybody's measure of having to face that down. worse than that is the medicare trust fund will come to zero before then. we have to find a way to save those. social security can be saved, but that is not part of what we are doing right now. we want to come up with a politically neutral platform that will allow us to fund the government on time and not allow it to be a political vehicle that one party can drive down the throat of the minority, their view of the physical reality of our country. we need a bipartisan solution every year without this drama. host: how do you get this fix approved? how do you get lawmakers, some of them who have been up there for many, many years to change the process? guest: that is the question and thank you for getting to that question because that is the problem. every budget chairman, every appropri

now, i'm back in the days of covering paul voelker and allan greenspan when i was a few years younger blunt or so clear. i don't know what bank rate senior economist, economic analyst mark hamrich thinks of that but man, that's pretty clear, i'm getting ready to cut. >> you're right, neil. we have been trying to decipher the comments of these fed officials for decades now, and you don't have to work so hard to decipher jerome powell. remember, he has said as he initiated news conferences after each and every meeting now that he wants to speak more plainly to the american people, and think about that in contrast or perhaps coinciding with the plain-speaking if that's the right way to put it, president, so in some ways, he's trying to match the style of communication that the president does but obviously, not nearly as effectively. neil: you know, the president, you mentioned him, still believes that the dollar is too strong, he blames the federal reserve, saying that with a strong dollar obviously in mixed trade, deficits get worse, whathave you, and it's very, very difficult to close

you know, we are only a couple hundred basis points away and does the fed do insurance cuts like greenspanse ended up being successful. or does it hold its powder and i think the fed will probably give the market something, but not as much as the market wants of the then, obviously, trade figures in very largely in whether something will happen at the g20 at this point i think market expectations are pretty low. so the fed will have some heavy lifting to do at this week's meeting. >> eddie, stan fisher is on the tape this weekend. he suggests that the fed might not have moved in december if the president hadn't been jawboning them so hard is there any -- what's the calculus in terms of the fed trying to move their pinn independence and perhaps that changing their otherwise agnostic fed decisions >> i think it's a good point i think the fed always wants to have its independence and does not want to be seen as reacting to external stimuli, including the remarks from the president and i think, again, that interplay, i think if you put yourself in the mindset of the president, the sequence of

. >> the fed changed under alan greenspan let's face it. this is just a continuation of that, if you want to call it a metamorphosis or evolution, whatever. james is right to a degree, you know, before the fed was 1000% independent. someone like volcker said i will make you go through certain amount of pain. you will love me afterward but hate me while you're going through it. neil: or hate you after you go through it. thank you, we're up 21 points here a lot of sectors that would benefit, finance, utilities from a rate environment, like one they're envisioning are doing well. not so well. volume running 2/3 of what it was yesterday at this time. you can tell to susan's earlier point, a lot of people are waiting this out to see what happens. keefe watching. you're watching fox business. i switched to liberty mutual, because they let me customize my insurance. and as a fitness junkie, i customize everything, like my bike, and my calves. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liber

is this possible that this is putting -- adding fuel to the fire, a la greenspan half a generation agoer that within the range of the risks, yeah, i mean, again, we're at all time highs but really haven't gone too far in a year and a half so i just -- i don't think that the fed is necessarily focused on the level of the stock market right now but credit even looks fine >> right >> everything looks fine that's why i feel like they have to position it almost as a little bit of a -- it's a cliche already, the insurance policy, but just a little bit of a cut to just restore business confidence and maybe give a little bit of a spark to inflation. i mean, the idea that they could fine tune inflation after years of missing the target with a half point cut is a little bit farfetched but i think that's what they're going to have to try to do. >> on the flip side, tom, would you rather see a federal reserve remain too tight in a slowing economy? >> i think i would i'm in the deals business and i'm very close to the debt market and i'm struck by leverage levels. and if you look at them on a cover

. >> the republicans were upset with alan greenspan. tweets. other presidents would leak it. this is more candid way to do it. maria: i would rather hear the truth about what somebody thinks of me. dagen: punch me in the face, don't shiv me in the back. maria: coming up, the ceo of united technologies is here, and raytheon's ceo joins us. deb fisher and sean spicer is here and connecticut attorney general, william tong. posh mark's ceo also here, don't miss a moment of it. we have breaking news. mass protests in hong kong, connell mcshane is there on the ground in hong kong with the very latest. this is an ex strord extraordiny and one of the most visual pushbacks on china we've seen yet. >> reporter: no doubt about it. we've been watching basically history unfold since we got off the plane earlier today and joined the protesters in the streets of the city for the second time this week. they've been out in full force and even though they had to endure the police shooting out rubber bullets, using tear gas at times, they were able to get

assault on the fed -- by the way, i've never agreed that you couldn't criticize the fed i thought greenspanerated, but trump is saying the economy is a little shaker than what it looks and i think that's what we will be able to talk about the other piece, it is the micro economic issues, beginning with healthcare. >> because you do need to look, i think, at, like you said, maybe take a deeper dive in the economy. david, i'm wondering whether independents -- i know democrats this is -- income inequality, we've had frank luntz on, he's going to be on again, and they've never been more sort of energized by that argument, but i'm just wondering if independents and certainly i know republicans when we hear we don't want a food fight we want to try to put food on americans tables and things are so bad right now, with where unemployment is overall and for minorities, and gdp or any of the measures, stock market, any of the measures you look at to keep hammering how bad the economy is seems disingenuous to me to independents. >> and what's more, joe, i think what the debate showed is almost all of

you know that hwc until the day we lost him about greenspan. >> totally >> and tried to -- you know,uestion is whether doing it this publicly politicizes -- look, the reason why we've had these questions for the last several years, it's been politicizing it in a public way. >> it doesn't help that it looks like all that grousing a year ago was absolutely well-founded by trump and once again i'm not saying he knew everything and is a genius and whether you think it's out of the mouths of babes or how it works, there's a lot of smart people that think that december was a mistake and he shouldn't have done it and listened to trump. that's z scary for you. i know. >> maybe he should have just stuck with the last fed chair given what's going on. >> it's interesting he says obama got a good one. >> and he's saying he had funny money to work with i want my funny money. none of us want funny money dictating -- >> exactly if we could just get more bitcoin, we wouldn't worry about the fed and central banks. that's the whole problem. >> this is an unbelievable transformation that's the whole pr

time i mean, there's a lot of indications that, i guess you forgot the cover of "time" that had greenspanbob rubin as the three guys that saved the economy right before the financial crisis, okay >> right. >> so, i mean, it's hard to -- you don't know how long your victory lap lasts, and that's what i'm worried about and i want you to tell me i don't need to worry, because i want to be told that the next time a recession comes, we will be able to manage it >> recession -- >> i want to know that with rates this low, there's something in the tank that allows -- because i think that there's a law of diminishing returns and that these guys are going to be pushing on us -- >> here's where i disagree with you on this, joe -- >> no, no, i'm just depositing it i don't say -- >> the rationale -- people say, oh, the fed has to keep rates high so that they have ammunition to deal with the next recession, that they themselves are causing by keeping rates too high so, that's why i don't like that -- >> so there's not bubbles built up by easy money staying -- >> no, we have two problems with the econom

operative word is thinking and this jay powell isn't ben bernanke, isn't janet yellen and isn't alan greenspans he's going to go a quarter, quarter, quarter i think you have to be really open-minded about this fed and the fact that this economy, maybe like the st. louis blues, may defy the odds, and the economic expansion we all want to put a gravestone on -- >> but rick -- >> -- probably had a bunch of innings that didn't count several years ago. >> i agree with you. but the question is how much money is on the blues right now? is all the money on the blues? is some of the money on the blues? or is none of the money on the blues? and when the blues win, is there a big loss -- >> they won! >> -- or a big adjustment -- right -- when the blues won? >> well -- >> is it the big adjustment as required >> as the season moves on, as percentages come through, as jay powell and company see what you and i see as the meetings get closer -- this crystal ball stuff is insane. seriously. >> but it's not crystal ball stuff, rick. >> it is >> it's trying to understand -- >> it totally is >> -- where and how t