they were the correct down on their protests and the police was attacking them we just talked to sylvie one mother who was a witness of what happened and she actually got injured herself. i'm sorry i feel that saying that because they had to it's. because whether the thing is today is the 50 center for the cut in south africa because that was done by the government. because that is the new money that i saw with my sister if a policeman can support him are the current there is no future for my children distantly i want to go. if you want to go anywhere as long as we are out of this country a place that we're going to be safe where are we going to see that we've been declared as a human being not like cockroaches or not like she could because we're not going to be slaughtered every day if you think that if you were the scientists in today's. not better place than home and then as we close our force to leave my country i did not choose to come to south africa i did not wake up one day and say let me thank you both for only the songs i forgot that i was forced to leave my country and indeed

but it was not peace that i told them to look at it this way i can have peace bernie and refugee sylvie speaking to increase their i spoke to garrett and you have head of the justice and violence prevention program at the institute for security studies i began by asking him whether the police's use of force was proportionate well what we saw was quite distressing and certainly we do have a problem generally in south africa with the disproportionate use of force and i think for most of what i've seen in this instance what he's done to stand there for many days have been negotiations trying to get people to leave that area there where they really it was a court order against me instructing people to leave and the police only call in as a very last resort and even the police try to negotiate and your people leave peacefully so only once all possible means of getting people to leave peacefully had being utilised the police start using direct force to try and clear their area and eventually arrested 100 people now you said that the police have been using force for some time now what's the pr

what we now know as the sylvie in, the welfare state to the life out of the people, and the socialist labor government accepted the united states devolution into throat was status. at the depth of this time, truly remarkable leaders. one was a methodist grocery store, the other was a baptist sheriff's son, they became united and unapologetic defense of the belief that western civilization was celebrating and defending. it was britain and her progeny, the united states that created the notion of a limited government in which democratic impulses were balanced by political traditions, resting on order faith and justice. margaret thatcher and jesse helms work cut from the same cloth. they were charged in the and, north carolina tottenham that they were built with a home in a family, not with programs and bureaucrats. they're protestant morality and from their politics. evil to them was not an in politics term. evil was a threat to be confronted and destroyed. in the mid 1970s, when mrs. statues leader to the leader of the conservative party. her focus was to reach out to potential allies

putting the government, peop in government in the position of being more straightforward, i mean, sylvie was saying look at the inspector generals as somebody helping them. i'm not sure that's always the case, but i think in the sense you, just your presence lights a fire. >> thank you. thank you for the answer. i want to turn from what you were described as both a big picture of the press of an institution safeguarding against abuse and the work of the public, and separation of powers to this sort of work more internal, and that in government of oversight and accountability entities. michael, thank you for being here. you are really one of the progenitors of this work, and really appreciate personally and the students appreciate very much your support of our efforts to launch the project. can you say a little bit about what the outside world should know about inspectors general, at this moment in time? and how that relates to our project of bringing that to the public, but also as a matter of sort of civic literacy. why this work is so important. >> thank you. it's great to be here, and