with us tonight to talk about all of it, karine jean-pierre, public affairs officer for moveon, an alum with the obama campaign and obama white house, also author of the new book "moving forward: a story of hope, hard work, and the promise of america." and rick wilson, republican strategist who's soon to be following up on his first work, "everything trump touches dies" with his new work "running against the devil," due out in early 2020. good evening and welcome to you both. so, rick wilson, given that lead-in, i'm reminded that senator ron johnson, republican of wisconsin, called vindman a bureaucrat trying to sabotage the president. are the republicans' position changing on the fly? if you're a vulnerable republican senator and one of your colleagues is talking that way, it can't be good for you. >> no. you've got to wonder about how far they can push this fairly bogus argument that vindman and everybody else are members of this secret never trump cabal. this is a guy who has had honorable and courageous service in the military. he is a serious person. and it reflects terribly on guy