pat ford mentioned kogel. we are determined and aggressive about wanting to use our travel resources our training and travel resources to get employees to places where we can all absorb and learn from our peers and share information as pat and others will be doing on panels this year. so this year we have a good handful of people go into the conference and i think that's an important thing to do for people to keep current and all the issues we'll learn from best practices and see what's happening in san francisco because there's a lot of work underway with all the work the commission has been doing the past year. we are likely not to attend in the coming year too. there are conferences that have been established two or three-years out but some are in cities where there is a no-travel policy that are happening in those jurisdictions so we will be following lead on that, obviously. so i think it's timely to be able to send employees to this conference in chicago next year there is a conference in georgia, and th