nationsexample, in where those yields are negative, people are not spending money. fact, they are saving more than they did before. so there is the opposite impact. it is not stimulative. and we do see the impact in the united states. our fed has pushed back against the idea of negative yield and yet aren't yields are lower than the otherwise would be because of what is happening in other countries. tom: one of our losses in economics this year is marvin goodfriend of carnegie mellon with his important jackson hole paper and professor goodfriend's work and people like you are in the if there a world of economics talking with chairman powell and the rest of us are out there is negative interest rates. it doesn't work. is chairman powell aware that into 2020, there is a must a social need to normalize rates, back to the incentives that we knew? abby: i have great confidence in chairman powell and also the team he has. not just members of the board, but also the staff members. and i think they see the pragmatic aspects of what is happening now. i think they would like