the official history, james madison did not have any children with his wife, dolly madison was a widow and had a son. the story your family told for generations details parts of their lives in the life of james and correen's son jim who was sold off as a teenager at dolly's urging. can you give us a recap? it is a life we are talking about, a sense of what you heard? >> host: about jim's life? >> guest: jim's life. i'm interested in that. >> guest: jim was madison's son and the time he was born, came to live with them as montpelier and dolly assigned correen to be his wet nurse and the story goes jim was on one breast and the baby whose name was victoria on the other breast and over the years, they became very good friends. they were in their teens, they fell in love with each other, and promptly told jim in tennessee, never thought his mother or father or victorio - >> host: a heartbreaking story. you decided to find these unnamed, unreported what happened to jimmy coming in 1992 made the first of many trips to montpelier, the madison family plantation that is now a historic site, to

thomas jefferson freed slaves who were his direct descendents but james madison didn't create a single slave. to go to philadelphia, whose contract madison sold to a northerner assuming that eventually he was free. jefferson and all, they live this strange dichotomy of lofty ideals, but not truly being able to live up to them. they probably -- that is the way we do things here. didn't really want to do that. as far as acting on it. >> host: what positive or negative reactions have you received from your book? >> guest: so far, i have only had positive reactions. >> host: i am guessing there will be controversy, people disputing of the account at the sally hemmings family. building relationships at montpelier you mentioned speaking at workshops and symposium re-examining historical narratives and how they are formed, who is included, there is a real history movement that wants contextualize how we remember whether it is integrating the story of sally hemmings at monticello or in georgia the atlanta history center, contextualizing lost cause civil war monuments. how would you like your f

the history is of course james madison did not have any children with his wife, the famous hostess dolley madison. she was a widow and had a son when they married. but you destroy your family told for generations, the life of james and her son jim who was sold off as a teenager at dollies urging. can you give us a little recap of courses koepke and his wife were talking about but a sense of what you heard about his life? >> about jim's life? >> jim's life i mentioned, didn't i? >> well, jim was madison and corine, and about the time he was born, one of dollies nieces came to live with them at montpelier, and dolly aside careened to be his wetnurse. the story goes that she put jim on one rest and the baby whose name was the tory on the other breast and nurse them together. over the years they became very good friends. when they were in their teens they fell in love with each other. dollies son found out about it and she probably told jim and jim ended up in tennessee and he never saw his mother or father or victoria again. >> just a heartbreaking story, one of many. you decided you will tr

. >> most of us think of james madison as a founder of our country with the first draft of the bill of rights, what did you think or what were you told? >> so in this american history but i was also told of my great-great-grandfather so he was my ancestor. >> always remember you are a madison coming from african slaves and the president. what does that mean to you as a child? >> it sets up clear expectations to be an inspiration to be reminded he is a great man and that also i have slaves in my family so there is a lot to live up to. >> and your mother care read stories of lineage and both were enslaved. eight generations going back to the african woman kidnapped and brought to the united states. so tell us about that tradition and the role in your family. >> the tradition goes back thousands of years before the birth of christ. those who maintain the entire culture with its value forever. but primarily it is a tradition of oral history. >> so throughout your family and your mother told the story there was a slight presentation to those genealogical organizations you call that the blac

the official history is that james madison did not have any children with his wife from dolly madison. she was a widow and had a son with a married but the story your stepfamily tells details the life of james and karine's son jim that was sold off at dolly's urging. give us a recap i know it's complicated and the life but a sense of what you heard about his life? >> jim was madison and karine's son. about the time he was born one of dolly's nieces came to work with them at montpelier. and hired him to be his wetnurse. so the story goes that should put jim on one breast and the baby on the other breast and nurse them to gather. over the years they became very good friends. and they fell in love with each other when they were in their teenage years. dolly found out so she sold jim he ended up in tennessee and never saw his mother or father or victoria again. >> just a heartbreaking story and one of just many heartbreaks. >> see you decided you would try to find these unnamed people and in 1982 you make your first of many trips to montpelier the madison family plantation and traveled to

this begins with this woman got kidnapped a teenager and purchased by james madison senior. he assaulted her she bore his child karine. and james junior who became president . so this is not only raped but there's incest in the attempt . this was so courageous of you to have this conversation with your mother. can you talk a little bit about that conversation a little bit . speech out pretty wild. i was sitting on the floor with a bunch of papers around me. i was thinking did she really recognize what this was. so i called her up and he said, you know the princeton madison was a rapist. and she said really. and i said yes. so she was quite uncomfortable with that term. and her term, she burned was visiting. host: 20 think about for her temperament like that. speedo liberty or to listen to me. host: i'm interested in the dynamic. it was just not being able to define historical records by your own family, the history they carried with them. in a way you work batting at a sacred cow. bettye: and i was a first take of the bat. not my mother, my grandfather actually passed down th

madison. she is a widow and had a son when he married. but the story your family tells is the life of james and karine who was sold off as a teenager at dolly's urging. give us a little brief course that is a life we are talking about but what you heard about his life. >> jim was madison and karine's son about the time he was born sally's these came to live with him and had little children and then found hired karine to be the wetnurse. so the story goes that should put jim on one breast and the baby named victoria on the right and over the years they became very good friends and in their teens they fell in love with each other and dolly found out about it she sold jim and never saw his mother or father or victoria again. >> is a heartbreaking story. just one of many. so you decided to find that unnamed and unrecorded what happened to jim and that you made your first of many trips to montpelier at the madison family plantation from portugal, africa, and several states. so me were descended from slave slaves, they were considered important enough a lot of trails went cold that there were som

the official history is a james mattis did not have any children with his life, the famous dolley madison, she was a widow and had assigned when they married. your story they detail part of their lives and the lives of jame and karine son jim who was sold off as a teenager, can you give us a little recap, it is complicated and it's a life but a sense of what you heard about his life. >> about jim's life. >> jim was not a sink and cream son, the time he was born when her nieces came to live with them amount your. and they assigned cream to be his wetnurse, the story goes that kareem put jim on one breast and jim on the other breast and they nurse together. over read the years they became very good friends and when they were in their teens they fell in love with each other. and she found out about it and she told jim and jim ended up in tennessee and he never thought his mother or his father or victoria. >> is a heartbreaking story in one of many heartbreaking. so you decided you will try to find the unnamed, unrecorded, what happened to jim and in 1992 you made your first of many, many tri

by the time william henry harrison dropped dead in april of 1841 the last founding father, james madison has been dead for four years and there is nobody to ask. i could go through close call after close call but i will tell you three of my favorite stories. one is the constitutionally geeking out for a minute. what the constitution said in 1865 when lincoln was assassinated, if there's a double vacancy, the president pro tem for ends up as an acting president of the secretary of state has constitutional authority to make that happen and have some special election the following november. back to the evening of 1865, andrew johnson would have been murdered had they not decided to get drunk at a bar nearby and another part of the lincoln murder conspiracy went into go kill william seward, the secretary of state and seward was in his bed and stabs him repeatedly so seward almost died. what happens if there's no secretary of state to make the president pro tem the acting president and call a special election? shockingly the constitution is very clear about this, the assistant secretary of st

james madison sent him a letter saying congratulations --will you accept? no due diligence was undertaken and they were unaware of the fact that johnson, while on the south carolina court, authored an opinion that if it had come to light would have given at least gastric distress if not downright apoplexy to thomas jefferson. why? he did in that opinion two things that were anathema. he recognized the heresy as it was put of implied powers and he recognized the constitutionality of the bank of the united states. this is why i refer to william johnson as -- i hate this term because i don't think there is any truth to it but people like to talk about "stealth" nominees. he was our first stealth nominee. allerton and jefferson thought they had put a jeffersonian cap among the federalist canaries. they were going to be greatly disappointed. johnson carved out a record during his tenure on the court all ofort for virtually the named positions embraced by john marshall. this was not because john marshall's legendary persuasive powers. it was because if you look a

in a strangely prophetic letter to james madison in 1790, he complained about marshall and said we needo find something better to do with him to get him out of the way. quote nothing could be better -- "nothing could be better done than to make him a judge." that was, became true much to jefferson's chagrin. the theory would be that william johnson would be an ardent supporter of the jeffersonian approach to things. one small problem, they selected him on the recommendation of the secretary of treasury, name sent to the senate, confirmed, james madison sent him a letter saying congratulations, would you accept? a strange pattern in those days. undertaken,ence was and they were unaware of the fact that johnson, while on the south carolina court, authored an opinion which if it had come to light have given at least gastric distress if not apoplexy to thomas jefferson. why? in that opinion, he did two things that were anathema. he recognized the heresy, as it was put, of implied powers, and he recognized the constitutionality of the bank of the united states. i refer to william johnson as

they were getting their directives from hamilton, and surprisingly, james madison by the time he's presidentis also putting people in his cabinet but he's constantly having to replace. .. >> to think about engaging in a war with france and a series of diplomatic failures and then the diplomats come home. john adams goes along with it but then they pulled back and decides the members of his cabinet that has been listening to hamilton and takes the action to find a diplomatic solution as opposed to going to war. now this is in a serious way the election of 1800 because guess who? alexander hamilton circulates the pamphlet secretly and then he has to admit he is actually trying to undermine john adams reelection. so being a president is complicated in no way do they want to say john adams didn't make that crucial fundamental mistakes but also needs to be put into context that you have to compare the presidency to early presidents because nobody is perfect and infallible. >> and the belief to be uneducated and irrational seems to be at odds with a more realistic psychological insight that people

letter sent from james madison to george washington ctober 24, 1793, talking about this very issue in a pandemic meet.his body should 15 seconds. mr. woodall: i yield an additional minute to the gentleman. i thank the gentleman from georgia. that this body should continue to meet. from james madison, the father of the constitution, to our father of our country, eorge washington, expressly lays out what he's talking about to try to protect our duty to a body. the requirement of physical presence, the requirement that together, look each other in the eye, to do our duty constituents.ur this is not, my friend from massachusetts, this is not about slowing down the work of this body. is about doing our duty to uphold the constitution and finding a way to navigate difficulties of the current moment. we got through yellow fever. we got through world wars. flu.t through the spanish we got through a civil war. and we managed to figure out how job. our our founders got through smallpox. i would implore my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, let us not adopt this proxy voting solemn we tu

contrary to that, the shortest president was president james madison, who was a full foot shorter than that. he was five foot four and 99 pounds. president lincoln, obviously assassinated in the ford theater. he actually predicted his death from a dream that he had had the night before. as grant was supposed to have been his guest that night, who had to bail at the last minute and, on president lincoln's desk in the oval office the night he was assassinated was legislation to create the secret service. i'll be, it not for presidential protection, primarily for counterfeiting purposes, and i thought that was kind of ironic. he was also a world-class wrestler and supposedly wrestled and more than 300 matches, losing only one of them. someone told me that he is enshrined in the world rustling hall of fame, which i thought was interesting. coincidentally, i want to show you something over here. of all 42 sculptures, the only one to take a spill off of a flatbed was abe. that hole in the back of his head was not intentional. the one on the top was. that occurred when he fell off of the flat

the claims of their descendents of james madison and his slave corine. african-american study professor frank wilder offers his thoughts on being black in america. find more information on both tv.org or on your program guide. >> joining us on book tv from detroit is janet webster jones in alyson jones turner. the co-owners of source book sellers. janet, when did you start your bookstore? >> 1989. we just celebrated our 30 years of selling books here in detroit. at that time, vendors, people had been showing up. in 2002, we helped form a collective of three independent stores that share the space. in 2013, we moved into the space that we are in now. midtown detroit. >> how far from the downtown area are you, in detroit. >> eight or 9 miles. downtown is one district, as they are saying now, in detroit. the next district after that. years ago, new center was created, and another part of the city. that is another five or 7 miles up beyond us. we are really right in the heart of the cultural life of the city with the university, library, main library, wayne

and as james madison explained, in federalist 51, if men were angels, we wouldn't need government. if we had access to angels to run our government, we wouldn't need rules about government. but we're not angels, we don't have access to them so we instead have to rely on humans. humans are flawed and make mistakes and also, sometimes decide for nefarious or political or other reasons to flout the law. hence the need for the light watchman. hence the need for rules that restrict their ability to do that. so, i find it entirely unsatisfactory when people say just let the fbi deal with this. first of all, they haven't dealt with it. they haven't dealt with it even as abuses have become more and more known under various provisions of fisa, even as we're still coming to determines with language that was adopted nearly two decades ago, itself overly broad at the time and abused since then. we're not go to trust that the organization able to operate entirely in secret with the benefit of protection of national security laws, with the benefit of overclassification of documents, we're not si

letter sent from james madison to george washington ctober 24, 1793, talking about this very issue in a pandemic meet.his body should 15 seconds. mr. woodall: i yield an additional minute to the gentleman. i thank the gentleman from georgia. that this body should continue to meet. from james madison, the father of the constitution, to our father of our country, eorge washington, expressly lays out what he's talking about to try to protect our duty to a body. the requirement of physical presence, the requirement that together, look each other in the eye, to do our duty constituents.ur this is not, my friend from massachusetts, this is not about slowing down the work of this body. is about doing our duty to uphold the constitution and finding a way to navigate difficulties of the current moment. we got through yellow fever. we got through world wars. flu.t through the spanish we got through a civil war. and we managed to figure out how job. our our founders got through smallpox. i would implore my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, let us not adopt this proxy voting solemn we tu

the claims of their descendents of james madison and his slave corine.frican-american study professor frank wilder offers his thoughts on being black in america. find more information on both tv.org or on your program guide. >> joining us on book tv from detroit is janet webster jones in alyson jones turner. the co-owners of source book sellers. janet, when did you start your bookstore? >> 1989. we just celebrated our 30 years of selling books here in detroit. at that time, vendors, people had been showing up. in 2002, we helped form a collective of three independent stores that share the space.

you go look at a letter from october 24 of 1793 that james madison wrote to president washington, he outlines the concerns about how congress should meet. where we should meet. walks through the consternation of following the constitution to ensure that congress does its job. i would encourage you to look at that letter. the founders struggled with these issues. that's why it's important we stand up today. we cannot delegate away that which our constituents have delegated to us, under the constitution. we cannot hand that to another member. much less hand it to 10 other members. that's an extraordinary change in our constitutional system of government. and i would just point out, year ago this last sunday, i walked onto the floor of the house and i objected to $19.5 billion passing by unanimous consent. why? you guys wrote stories that it was about trying to object to the funding. but the truth is, it was about process. it was about making sure our rights are protected so we can have a vote, a roll call vote. fast forward to march of this last year, what happened? we had a member of

james madison, father of the constitution said this: the constitution supposes what the history of all governments demonstrates that the executive, branch of power most interested in war and most prone to it, it has accordingly with studied care vested the question of war to the legislature. he continued, the power to declare war including the power judging the causes of war is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature. the executive has no right, in any case to decide the question whether there is or not cause for declaring war. and how about george washington, commander of our forces in the revolution, first president of the united states, father of our nation, he said this: the constitution vets the power declaring war in congress, therefore no expedition of importance can be undertaken until after they show how deliberated upon the subject and authorized such as a measure, referring to congress. or how about george mason of virginia. george mason remarked that he was, quote, against giving the power of war to the executive because the president is not safely to be trusted wit

temporary white house after the fire of 1814, the second night that tim's medicine was fleeing -- james madison fleeing the white house, dolly madison was in one direction and he took off in another. sitting ine evening this little desk of the owner of the house. she got into the state dining room. the picture in the upper left is how she would have found it. the black marble mantelpiece was installed in the truman renovation, really just a surround. mental with lyons heads, changed to moved to thewas truman library. mrs. kennedy invited them to send the mental back -- the presidentk, but truman said no thank you, it is mine and i am keeping it. she was alluding to that she was having the same carving firm create a new white marble version of the greystone mantle from 1902. ,ou see that in the lower right after she was finished working on the room. she kept the drapes from the truman era and the table and the chairs from 1902. a new rug and mantle. here is the mental police -- mantelpiece. you can see the bison head in the right corner. before leaving office, a lione roosevelt said is not an am

the second night that james madison was fleeing from the white house after dolly madison had taken thenting and taken off in one direction. he basically was running the government in maryland sitting in this little desk made by the owner of the house. i pushed too fast. she moved down the hall and got into the state dining room. the picture of the upper left is how she would've found it. the black marble mantle please was what was installed in the truman renovation, it is just a surround. the 1902 mantle that she's so admired that had the lion's heads, changed bison heads, was in fact removed during truman renovation and sent to that library. the mrs. kennedy invited them to send the mantle back. the curator, it was president cheer truman who said no thank you i am keeping it. she was alluding to it, she was having the same carving firm to create a white marble them. you see that in the picture in the lower right, which is after she was finished working on the room. she kept the drapes from the truman era, and the chairs and table from 1902. new rug, new mental. here's the mantle piece

prevail and the federalist party john adams and alexander hamilton on one side and jefferson and james madison on the other with intense competition like we have today hyper partisanship so to rebuild the electoral college thinking about jefferson's reelection in 18 oh four. he is the new image where there is partisan competition it isn't a consensus anymore us versus them if one side wins the other side loses the other side should be the majority party not the minority party. the majority rule based on the federal constitution the united states of america a compound majority were jefferson wins the electoral college to accumulate so that is the new idea adopted in 18 oh three ratified in 18 oh four. no one ever taught me that in constitutional law class that was ignored. and with those fundamental principles are as rich if not richer than the philadelphia convention. they had 12 years of the country under their built on - - belton republican form of government with the image of majority rule. that is the creation the basically to fall apart in the era of andrew jackson. after that they start

to scotto, a third grade teacher at james madison elementary school in san leandro.hite said she's her hero. she goes above and beyond for her students and they know they can depend on her. after school is closed mrs. to scotto make sure students had what they needed. she checks in on them on sue meetings, does daily readings and stories and let them know she is still always there. we salute you and appreciate what you are doing. if you want to nominated teacher, send us an email and tell us why they deserve to be recognized and send the photos and videos to my hero, ktvu.com. >> the memorial day holiday coming up this weekend. how many traditional events have now gone digital? >> tune in tonight for an all- new friday night smack down. it all get started at 8:00. that will be followed by the 10:00 news and 11:00 news, all on ktvu. memorial day weekend is usually one of the busiest travel periods of the year. this year will be very different. ongoing shelter at home orders all across the country. beaches will be open but with no swimming, no sports and no big gatheri

you might know that cbs news misspelled dolly's name in the that james madison was fleeing from the whitese after dolly madison had grabbed the painting and taken off in one direction and he took off in another direction and he was running the government for one night in brookeville, maryland, sitting in this little desk made by the owner of the house. she moved down the hall out of our normal tour route and got into the state dining room first. the picture at the upper left is how she would have found it. the black marble mantel piece is what was instilled in the truman registration. the lion's head carved on it changed to bison heads was, in fact, removed by the truman renovation and sent to the troouman library. mrs. kennedy actually invited them to send the mantel back and it wasn't the no thank you. it's mine. i'm keeping it. what she was alluding to was that she was having the same firm, the same carving firm, create a new white marble version of the gray stone mantle that was installed in 1902. you see that in the picture of the lower right which is after she was finished working o

the second night that james madison was fleeing from the white house after dolley madison had grabbed painting and took off in one direction and he took off in another direction. he basically was running the government for one night in brookville, maryland, sitting in this desk made bite owner of the house. she moved down the hall out of our normal tour route and got into the state dining room first. the picture at the upper left is how she would have found it. the black marble mantle piece is what was install the in the truman renovation. it is really just a surround. the big 1902 mantle that she so much admired that had the lion heads changed to bison heads was send to the true man library. not to malign our do hornets at the true man library, but mrs. kennedy invited them to send mantles back. president true man said no thank you. they are mine and i am keeping them. so she had a white version created. you see that in the pick at the lower right which was after she have finished working on the room. she kept the drapes from the true mannera, and the chairs, table. new rug and mantl

came to us -- it was in the temporary white house after the fire of 1814, the second night that james madisonleeing from the white house, dolly madison was in one direction and he took off in another. he was running the government in one night in brookville, maryland. brooklyn, --ght in bill, maryland. he spent the evening sitting in this little desk of the owner of the house. she got into the state dining room. the picture in the upper left is how she would have found it. the black marble mantelpiece was installed in the truman renovation, really just a surround. a big 1902 mantel had the lion heads, changed to bison heads, was moved to the truman library. not to align our cohorts at the truman library, but mrs. kennedy invited them to send the mantle back, it was president truman who said no thank you, it is , mine and i am keeping it. what she was alluding to that she was having the same carving firm create a new white marble version of the greystone mantle that had been installed in 1902. you see that in the lower right, after she was finished working on the room. she kept the drapes from

james madison said the electoral college was all about giving the states authority to oversee presidential elections as the sulfate and as the majority noted, contemporaries of the founders did indeed see the proxy voters on behalf of the public and that was absolutely the backdrop to the amendment so i would also point to the amendment as effectively confirming and accepting the fact they can be and indeed most often or proxy voters, not free agents. >> your honor, there were a series of compromises between separating powers, between the states and federal government and between the state. this was one of those compromises that was reached at the final days of the constitutional convention. >> thank you, counsel. you have a minute to wrap up if you like. >> yes, mr. chief justice. as we noted, it's all about state authority. and on the theory of my friends on the other side, states have no authority even to remove the electors short of a full criminal trial. they gave the states the authority and expected them to exercise it in ways that were sound. that's what has been the histoy of thes

the other one might be someone like james madison because he was there. and involved with so much not just with the founding but with the birth and development of america. he would have been my third. jeffrey: you have taken madison. we need him back. there is an amazing moment in the civil war exhibit when lincoln in 1840 and frederick douglass discover madison's notes being published. those are so important that they convince lincoln that we the people of the united states as a whole are sovereign and secession as constitutional. they persuade frederick douglass to change his conception of himself as a citizen. so what an amazing thrill and necessity it would be for all of us to talk to madison and find out exactly what went on. you have to invite jefferson to see if you can have a better dinner party. also to talk about music and science with him. just channel his genius and conversation, which was supposed to be so incredibly sparkling. i love the question. there are so many. i would like so much to meet harry truman who just seemed so authentic, stayi

you could read people like james madison, a little bit of thomas jefferson. every once in a while you pick up worries about luxury and self-government not being compatible with each other. luxuriousness, luxury bred laziness which bred complacency. you cease to be interested in the way the world works. you cease to be interested in how things are happening. i know you cannot imagine this all. we need a new frontier because that is why we are who we are. if you know cultural history that phrase, a new frontier rings through american history like a bell. john kennedy said this at some point and got a lot of traction, we need a new frontier. you don't have to be specific what it is. we need a frontier, where? i don't know, alaska maybe. no one has been to alaska yet, the frontier. space, the final frontier. the human heart, the depths of the ocean, we need a frontier, why? that is what shapes us. that is what he is saying. this sort of forces our hand, right? if i'm right about this says turner, the future has to be out there. he is in the background saying you

how to maintain virtue and how to avoid a concentration of political power and extremism while james madison famously federalist number ten how you avoid factionalism and extremism and now what we would call class warfare he didn't call at that time that concentrated economic power and indebted populist and the small republic how the interest of those two groups could come into conflict but the way you avoid the extremism that might result from private property is to move west i am not whitewashing that experience in any way there is always an enormous amount of violence and ethnic cleansing along with that indigenous removal expanding slavery west across the continent but there is still a way in which those expansion and those in particular that becomes central to the book and to hold up the frontier is more than a place and is a continent for a boundary your political border and it becomes that existential creation the place in which in the 1893 said that civilization with a certain political freedom and equality associated with the united states was founded and forged in the point of the

james madison said the electoral college was all about giving the states authority to oversee presidential elections as they saw fit. as the majority in re noted, contemporaries of the founders did indeed see electors as proxy voters on behalf of the public and that was absolutely the backdrop to the 12th amendment. so i would also point you to the 12th amendment as effectively confirming and accepting the fact that electors can be and most often are proxy voters, not free agents. >> why do you think the founders did not leave it up to the states to decide whether they wanted their members of congress to be electors? >> your honor, the constitution had a series of compromises between separating powers, between the states and federal government and between the states. this was one of those compromises that was reached at the final days of the constitutional convention. >> thank you. >> you have a minute to wrap up if you would like. >> yes, mr. chief justice. as we've noted, this case is all about state authority and on the theory of my friends on the others, states have no authority even t

founders footprint, john adams and alexander hamilton on one side in one party, jefferson and james madisonother side and its intense competition like we have today, hyper partisanship.the jeffersonians refill the electoral college thinking about jefferson's reelection in 1804 so he is the new image of an authentic winner for a world where there is partisan partition is not going to be consensus anymore, it's going to be us versus them. if one side wins the other side loses at least the weather should be the majority party, not the minority party. majority rule for them is based on the federal constitution for the united states of america so it's a complicated compound majority were jefferson wins the electoral college majority by accumulating state-based majority. that's the new idea. this is the fourth amendment adopted by congress in 1803 ratified in time for 1804 and it's philosophically very different from the original. no one ever taught me that in my constitutional law class the 12th amendment was ignored it turns out the debate in congress on the fundamental principles of our presid

as james madison said, if men were angels, we need no government. there are profit procedures to be taken to minimize it. those procedures are not suppression, they are not racist, they are common sense. >> harris: wow. i was spitting out, "really!" within! ! again i ask, because these are different times, these are different, tough times, ari. to have time to clean stuff up? i really thinking about sending millions of people into places that we know may not be safe for them? >> ari: that is why the washington state example is so valid. it did take years for them to get the pattern right in that state and to work together to clean up the voting rolls. if you have cleaner voter rolls, if you are allowed to purge them on a regular basis, i think it can work. washington state's example is good. i've seen no evidence that vote by mail favors one party or the other. what i have seen is you have to do it right. doing it on a short time frame without cleaned up rolls can be problematic. >> jessica: and i think so far -- >> harris: sending anybody out in pe

james madison who was president said aren't those british terrible?ans said was they are, but you're not a very good president because your job is to keep us safe. when dwight eisenhower was planning the invasion of europe, d-day in 1944, he wrote out, as you well know, this piece of paper to be used if the invasion turned out to be a failure. he said "if it's a failure, the blame is mine alone." that's historical. that's the american tradition. >> turning from the politicians to the public, what examples in history do you look to for what we all need to be doing right now as we try to summon the grit to deal with something that is a health and economic crisis? >> we've got to protect ourselves, and we should not be so dependent on what our president happens to tell us. we've gotten into some bad habits the last couple of decades, especially since world war ii. we expect presidents to solve problems like this. and the problem is usually they have. franklin roosevelt said i'm going to defeat fascism in germany and japan, and harry truman said we're goi

it is only reading between the lines because i read just about every word thomas jefferson and james madisonever wrote. i think i have a pretty good idea what they meant by government, a government whose sole purpose is the protection of rights. they meant constitutional government, a constitutional republic. it is one based on we, the people, but it has a constitution that defines, establishes, and limits the power of government. it means, because it is constitutional, a limited government, a government whose powers are designed by the constitution. this third truth says the just powers of government are derived from the consent of the governed. built into this part of the third truth is the idea of consent. this comes out of the revolutionary crisis. no taxation without representation, which means no taxation without the consent of the people. the moral principle of consent is at the heart of the american revolution and declaration of independence. consent is a principal. it is a principle that is -- it is a kind of principle that unites, connects. equal rights on the one hand, but governm

to the founding and it was state that is posed one of the obstacles to national popular vote as james madisond quite openly during constitutional convention and because they knew that owl of their slaves who couldn't vote that would reduce their power in a popular vote election and that's why we ended up in part with the electoral college. you see it in even as late as 1969 and 1970, effort in congress getting closer than any other in american history to abolish electoral college, it was led by a filibuster in the senate by 3 southern segregation ists. this is really central to the story of america and i think, you know, even the day we have today about big cities, you know, one one of the questions t on the electoral college and what would happen if we switched to national popular vote is big cities which would dominate the vote and i think for a lot of people in this country big cities is akin to the coastal liberals would dominate the elections. you know, first of all, it's true in terms of numbers but i think that's really what's hiding behind the expressions in a lot of cases, maybe peop

as james madison said if men were angels we would need all these laws. the people are going we need more gun control, tell me a law that lawbreakers will obey and i'll consider it but by their very nature there lawbreakers so they're not going to obey the law. this is a little thing, all authority comes from god,even leaders . can't explain hitler, i can't explain solid, i can't explain now but when jesus stood before pilate and said you realize i have the power of life and death over you and he said you wouldn't have that power is my father had given to you . >> if president trump was installed by god by some way or another, thisis god's will . >> i'm not god, i can't tell you. a very prominent evangelical leader said in 2016 god showed up. i wrote in response who showed up when obama was elected or clinton? you can't say that. god is no republican. >> don't tell some evangelicals that. >> the point people in office 40 zones purposes. nebuchadnezzar whose saddam hussein patterns himself after, there was a lot of lousy leaders in scripture and old and ne

because as james madison said, if men were angels we would need all these laws.the people arguing we need more gun control laws, tell me a law that lawbreakers will obey and i will consider it. but by the very nature they are lawbreakers they will not obey the law. this is an interval thing. what does the authority come from course all authority comes from god, even bad leaders. i don't know why. i'm not god. i can explain hitler. i can't explain stalin. i can't explain now. but when jesus stood before pilot and sit in the greatest church-state moment ever, don't you realize i have the power of life and death of you? he responded you wouldn't have that power if my father had that given to you. in the debate. >> host: continue. if president trump -- this is god's will -- can you teach us a lesson? >> guest: on the data can sugar very prominent evangelical leader set in 2016, god showed up. i wrote in response, welcome who showed up when obama was elected or clinton or bush? you can't say that. god isn't a republican. >> host: don't tell some evangelicals that trag

the dinners were named after james madison, america's fourth president, fifth secretary of state who made a habit of inviting foreign diplomats to exchange ideas over dinner but historians could point to no precedent for a secretary of state playing host to such frequent gatherings paid for by state department funds involving public and political leaders. we have photos of these dinners. these are these madison dinner invitations 'some invitations. some of the invite tease were political and government, 29% were global types, media entertainment, 23% diplomats, ford officials. no precedent for this. is this something that's common in the trump administration? because this is odd. >> well, look, there's nothing wrong with a secretary of state or another cabinet official having dinners, informal gatherings of prominent individuals in the case of a secretary of state to have diplomats from other countries, other, you know, representatives of foreign leaders, maybe some corporate folks that the state department might interact with. but the list of attendees here per those nbc obtained in

the other one might be someone like james madison because he was there and involved with so much, not just with the founding but the birth and development of america. so he would probably be my third. >> jeffrey? >> of course you have taken madison, the constitutional senator, we need him back and ask him a few questions. there is an amazing moment in the civil war exhibit where lincoln in 1840 and frederick douglas discover madison's notes being published. the notes were being published in that year about the convention. they were so important that they convinced lincoln that we as the people our sovereign. the constitution should take no position on we as property of men. the necessity would be for us to talk to medicine and find out what went on. you have to invite jefferson to see if you could have a better dinner party than when jefferson tine alone. but you also talk about music and science and to just channel his genius and conversation which was supposed to be so incredibly sparkling. then i would, i love the question and there are so many but i would love so much to meet harr

his histories have explored the writings of the constitution, james madison and the western expedition and treason trial of aaron burr. he's also the author of "impeached, the trial of president andrew johnson." andrew johnson of course second to last in the list. and we're ginned by c-span founding ceo and chairman and long time on camera interviewer. his 40 years of c-span interviews have been the basis of nine books for public affairs including of course "the presidents." i should note brian has visited every presidential grave sight as well as every vice presidential grave site in the country. with so please join me in welcoming our panel. first a question for our historians. ken along with your biography of garfield you've written about abraham lincoln and also have a day job as a practicing lawyer. what draws you to history in general? >> i've been writing history since the 1980s. i was a young lawyer in washington. i was working for what was then the senate governmental affairs committee back in the 1970s. i was working for senator chuck percy from illinois. and as a junior lawy

he includes james madison, the western expedition. he is also the author of "impeached." >>> finally we're joined by brian lamb, the c-span founder and man. basis of nine books with public fairs including, of course, "the presidents." brian has visited every presidential grave site as well as every vice presidential grave site in the country and we will have to ask him about that during the course of the interview. please join me in welcoming our panel. [ applause ] first a question for our historians, ken, along with your biography of garfield, you've written about abraham lincoln, 1860 convention. you have a day job as a practicing lawyer. what draws you to chronicling presidents and history in general? >> i've been writing history for -- since the 1980s. what drew me to james garfield was when i was a young lawyer in washington, i was working for what was then the senate governmental affairs committee, back in the 1970s. i was working for senator chuck percy from illinois. as a junior lawyer i was assigned to work on a bill that be