richard besser on the shocking response. >>> and a policeman lounging inside the office of congressman rush while looters run wild. congressman rush joins me as "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes."a in the sixth month of the year 2020, america is finally moving towards a consensus on banning choke holds by police officers and toppling statues of racist traders. it is a remarkable moment both because it has taken so long to get here and because it does it represent significant progress. on monday after house democrats unveiled a sweepling bill to reformed policing that included ban onth chokeholds, among othe items, today the top republican in the house, kevin mccarthy says that he agrees with that ban and that his party conceptually agrees with much of what the house democrats proposed. >> do you support banning choke holds? >> yes, especially in the concept if you watch within a pe bill coming forward.if the idea of someone that would have a chokehold when somebody is handcuffed and others, there should be severe consequences. >> there should be sev

richard besser in a moment. but vaughan, one more question -- i want to throw one more question to you which is that governor doocy is going to be holding a briefing. any indication that he might follow suit with what california, texas, and to some extent florida is doing by shutting down bars, places where young people are congregating, and spreading the disease in droves? >> for nearly a month and a half, the governor has been defiant saying that we should proceed with caution. but you haven't seen that on the streets. we should note schools, a lot of schools in arizona, there's this concept of year-round schooling in the state, are slated to open, some in two weeks, some in three weeks. that's a question mark. he had suggested just a few weeks ago that he planned to go forward with the school year. but that's the big question mark is what will he actually announce here ahead of the vice president's arrival. >> vaughan hillyard, thank you so much. zach despart, thank you, as well. dr. richard besser, former ac

richard besser former acting director of the cdc. dr.ways good to have you on. >> you hear the news there, i'm sure you read it, too, dr. fauci, three studies underway, one by moderna, another by astrazeneca and johnson & johnson. he adds that in his view having a vaccine in wide availability by the end of this year or early next year, if that's possible at this point i wonder if you're equally optimisteic? >> i would love to see that happen. i think we can't count on that. that would be faster than any vaccine in history has been developed and there are a number of things about developing vaccines. you want to know that they're safe before you administer them to large numbers of people and that requires trials much bigger than we've seen so far and then you want to make sure that they're effective and that seems varying in how effective they are. i worry that people have in their mind things like the measles vaccine which is incredibly effective and 95% effective. flu vaccine, as we know are much less effective than that. so even with t

richard besser, former director of the cdc.o good to have you on, especially in your role formerly at the cdc. tell us why it matters if it's the case that there were actually ten times as many covid-19 infections, does that help us to know going forward and if so, how? >> yeah. it's a very important piece of information. what the cdc director said is that they estimate that about 6% of people in america have had covid-19 infection. that tells you a couple of things. it tells you a lot of cases have been undiagnosed and we would expect that because as we have been saying all along and we have all been hearing, a lot of people who get this infection are asymptomatic, no symptoms whatsoever. and people had mild symptoms and early on, only people who were severely ill were being tested. the other piece of this to remember though is when you say only 6% of people have had the infection, while that's 20 million is a lot of people, it means that there's still hundreds of millions of people who are at risk. it's early days in the pand

richard besser. thanks for joining us. when you compare a map of coronavirus cases in the u.s. on memorial day to cases today, it's stunning. we're clearly in a much worse position tonight than we were on memorial day weekend. what does this indicate to you? >> well, jim, you know, i think what it indicates is that in parts of this country, this has not been taken as seriously as it should be by all of the residents. you know, when you look at where we were memorial day, so many states moving in the right direction, with numbers of cases going down, parts of the country really trying to use public health guidance as the road map to opening up the economy. and in other parts of the country, the message being, get back to work, go out, enjoy your social life. there's nothing to worry about with this covid pandemic. and when you see that clash of messages between some political leaders and then every public health leader taking this so incredibly seriously, when you see that clash of messages, this is the outcome. >> do public health experts like yourself feel like saying, "i told

richard besser. where protests are starting again after the shooting death of rayshard brooks. i want to bring back felicia moore, the president of the atlanta city council. hopefully we have better audio because i'm looking forward to speaking to you. tell us what it was like when you first saw that video. >> well, it was shocking to find out that we had a citizen that died at the hands of police officers here in atlanta. i send my condolences to the family. we all here in atlanta are hurting. >> we know the fallout was quick. the police chief stepped down. one officer was fired. the other put on administrative leave. nobody has been charged yet, and people continue to protest. the fury is real. are things not going to calm down until we see charges? >> well, i don't think it's just for this one particular incident. this has been a culmination of incidents over a period of time. years and decades for african-americans. and so what we're seeing is now frustration and anger among citizens. and that's

richard besser, the former acting director of the cdc. doctor, there is something hat is excruciatingly tragic and maddening about this. the cdc developed guidelines. those guidelines were then ignored by the president. he urged many states to open up. many states opened up in defines of the guidelines. and now here we are with an outbreak. i mean, does this look -- i guess does this look as bad to you right now numbers wise in trajectory as it looks to me and as it sounds when i read the numbers off? >> you know, chris, what really concerns me is this class -- clash of messages. where you hear every public health leader in the nation talking about this being early days in the pandemic. that the steps we take as individuals in terms of wearing masks and handwashing and keeping six feet apart and staying home when we're sick, that these things really, really matter. that the -- what we do as a society in terms of helping to protect essential workers and making sure that everyone has a safe place to quarantine if they need to. that's the me

richard besser, always good to have you on. thank you so much. and the "sesame street" crew is back on cnn for a new family town hall about coronavirus and staying safe this summer. you can see the abcs of covid-19 tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. some republicans in a key battleground state say that they are now rethinking their support for the man they voted for in 2016. we'll explain why next. stay with us. ♪ limu emu & doug [ siren ] give me your hand! i can save you... lots of money with liberty mutual! we customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ now every bath fitter bathbath fis installed quickly, safely, and beautifully, with a lifetime warranty. go from old to new. from worn to wow. the beautiful bath you've always wanted, done right, installed by one expert technician, all in one day. we've been creating moments like these for 35 years, and we're here to help you get started. book your free virtual or in-home design consultation today. when you think of a b

richard besser, always great to have you on. thank you so much for your expertise. turning now to our national lead, senate democrats block debate on the republican's policing reform bill today drafted by senator tim scott of south carolina. democrats called the bill an inadequate response to police brutality and racial injustice. emphasized state level reforms and limiting use of chokeholds, while the democratic plan called for national mandates on matters such as requiring officer body cams and outright banning chokeholds. house speaker nancy pelosi went as far as to suggest republicans are trying to get away with the murder of george floyd with their proposed bill. >> for something to happen, they're going to have to face the realities of police brutality, the reality of the need for justice in policing. they were trying to get away with the murder of george floyd. >> senate majority leader mitch mcconnell called the mark jaw dropping accusing democrats of waivering on their initial requirements for the bill. >> two weeks ago it was implied the senate would have

richard besser. and plus is the nfl season in jeopardy in that dr.ci says the league needs to make major changes to keep players safe. stay with us, we have the late breaking developments. frsz for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepa

richard besser, the former acting director of the cdc. take a listen. >> when you look at where we were memorial day, so many states moving in the right direction with numbers of cases going down, parts of the country really trying to use public health guidance. and then in other parts of the country the message being get back to work, go out and enjoy your social life. when you see that clash of messages between some political leaders and then every public health leader taking this so incredibly seriously, when you see that clash of messages, this is the outcome. >> can that even be changed? i still hear governors and we know about the record of the president when it comes to belittling this threat, is it too late to change this so there is one consistent voice on this? >> i wouldn't say it is too late. we certainly have a lot of people who are susceptible to this disease out there. and anything we can do at the local level, at the state and federal level, we need to do. because infections are soaring. and i think we can -- the map clear

richard besser, as usual, thank you very much. >>> more on president trump's visit to dallas for a roundtaoundtable more notable for who wasn't invited. but when you're with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. a partner who makes sure every step is clear, you know when your dog is itching for an outing... or itching for some cuddle time. but you may not know when he's itching for help... licking for help... or rubbing for help. if your dog does these frequently. they may be signs of an allergic skin condition that needs treatment. don't wait. talk to your veterinarian and learn more at itchingforhelp.com. >>> in a new york times op-ed, writes about two plagues, coronavirus and racism. the doctor said he only beat one -- we've only beaten one. here is his hope. he's joining us right now. he says he does have hope. doctor, thank you so much for joining us. you've been fighting coronavirus in the epicenter of the pandemic. at the same time you write about dealing with cumulative burden of racism in your words day after day,

richard besser on the shocking response. >>> and a policeman lounging inside the office of congressmanh while looters run wild. congressman rush joins me as "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes."a in the sixth month of the year 2020, america is finally moving towards a consensus on banning choke holds by police officers and toppling statues of racist traders. it is a remark

richard besser was on cnn earlier and he cited the case in new york state which has been aggressive in terms of contact tracing. and he said that there, a lot of people aren't complying because they don't want to say who they have had contact with. they're worried about losing their jobs if they test positive, et cetera. that just concerned me because one of the state that's been more forward leaning in the response doesn't seem to be able to get a handle on it in a key way. testing and contact tracing. from your perch who is getting it right if anyone? >> well, we're making the assumption that contact tracing is going to have a big impact on the pandemic. we have said over and over again, you know, test and trace to open up the economy. i always thought that that was an overstatement. i have had a lot of experience with the contact tracing over my career. i started the very first program in the world, for hiv contact tracing back in 1985. we have had a lot of experience with that. i think there are going to be huge challenges to get contact tracing to have a big impact on this pandemi

richard besser of the cdc, former director. it seems if and dr. fauci seemed to hint at this gently, we are right back to where we started. it feels like we are back where we were on, i don't know, late march where cases are rising. not as much testing. the only good news is we have more testing than we did then but it seems like the caseload is back up, the curves in the wrong direction. is there any way to turn this around? >> chuck, i think in many ways we are in a worst place than we were early on and what i mean by that is we are in a situation seeing incredibly mixed messages. we are hearing from some political leaders that there's nothing to worry about. get back to your social life. and we are hearing from every public health leader in the country as well as a lot of political leaders that this is really serious. that we are in the early days of the pandemic and what we do as a nation, what we do individually, collectively, is going to determine how many people die from this in the months to come and whether we're able to get the economy u

sanjay gupta is joining us and the former acting cdc director richard besser is with us as well.anjay, we are seeing these dire new numbers in several states, especially across the south and the west. what does that tell you about where we are in this epidemic? >> well, we're still very much in the middle of it. i think most people may gather that by now. this epdig sort of started i think not surprisingly. and obviously the significant impact in new york. but now you're seeing these sort of waves across the country. last monday a week ago there were 18 states that were sort of on the rise. wolf, now there's 23 states. and i think that that number's going to continue to go up. the problem is that even despite that map, we are largely starting to reopen. and we've known that there would be more people who'd get infected once we start to reopen. the problem is you've got a virus that's circulating so quickly in the community where it's re-opening. the number of people who get infected could go much higher than anyone predicts or wants. we're in the middle of this, wolf, still very

richard besser, sanjay, thank you. appreciate it. >>> still to come, breaking news on the investigation to what nascar said was a noose found in the garage of bubba wallace. the justice department announces findings. >>> also, kamala harris joins us to see if congress can reach a deal on police reform and talk of her as a potential vice presidential nominee for joe biden. we'll be right back. volkswagen today. you'll get 2 years or 20,000 miles of scheduled carefree maintenance. 3 years or 36,000 miles of 24/7 roadside assistance. 4 years or 50,000 miles bumper-to-bumper limited warranty. 5 years of connected services. and for 6 years you won't have paid any interest. down the road, you'll be grateful you bought a volkswagen today. can i find an investment firm with a truly long-term view that's been through multiple market cycles for over 85 years? with capital group, i can. talk to your financial professional or consultant for investment risks and information. >>> breaking news in the investigation of the noose left

arrival of vaccine, there's a little bit of a wake-up call from the former acting cdc director richard besser this week on "morning joe." >> i think you sobered a lot of people up the other day when you said in an interview that there is no guarantee we will ever have a vaccine. >> i have faith in the science community that they will be able to develop a vaccine. but yeah, there's no guarantee and there's no guarantee on timeline. the tools that we're using right now in terms of social distancing, wearing masks, washing our hands, those are the tools that we have. what i expect that we'll see is those measures of social distancing being dialed up and dialed down, depending on what's going on in communities. >> all right. here's the reality. there is no vaccine. we do not have herd immunity. and this administration is seemingly decided to move on. we're still in this thing. it's a pandemic. joining me now is richard horton, the editor in chief of "the lancet" and author of "the covid-19 catastrophe." richard, thank you for being with us. i don't understand why the happy talk. why we wouldn't p

richard besser. i appreciate your time tonight.hear from that report so many new cases in texas now that governor abbott is pausing future reopening plans, asking people to stay home, urging them to stay home. a doctor top doctor saying we could see apop licalyptic numbe there. how serious is the situation in texas? >> well, erin, i think the situation is texas is a warning shot for a situation that could occur in any state where this isn't being taken seriously enough. part of this coming down to a clash of messages where you hear some political leaders down playing the seriousness of the pandemic, telling people to get back to work, get back to their social lives while every public health leader in the country is saying this is really serious. this is early days in the pandemic. we need to take actions. we need to wear masks and social distance and wash our hands. what we're seeing in texas is a health care system that is in many places on the verge of getting overwhelmed. and we know what that looks like from what happened in ne

richard besser, former acting director of the cdc, president and ceo of the robert wood johnson foundation. also a member of the governor's recovery commission here in new jersey. okay. doctor, let's start with this sharp increase in numbers. we've heard the president say over and over, the numbers are only going up because we have more testing. but this thing is behind us. if this were behind us and we had more tests, wouldn't they be coming back negative? >> yeah, stephanie, there are a lot of things going on here. when you look at the national level and you see cases going up, it only tells you so much. you have to dig down just like your reporters are digging down in each state to understand what's happening. there are states where it's declining. here in new jersey where we are and in new york and in massachusetts, where people have really taken this seriously. there's been a demonstration that if you do social distancing, if you wear masks, if you stay home if you're sick, you can turn these curves down. what you're seeing in many parts of the country is the result of a number of thi

richard besser, thank you very very much the former acting director of the cdc.peaking of these protests in washington d.c. we're learning that the washington mayor bowser is once again demanding that the president withdraw military federal law enforcement from the city amid all these ongoing protests over george floyd. she has been reasoning that over the last couple of days. their presence just adds to the friction in the city. she has suspended curfew. she did so yesterday, and had to do so again, but again, employee imploring the president, get them out. we'll have more after this. neil: think about the significance of what happened today, that jobs report, when people are prepared to see job losses as high as 20 million americans, and instead they see a job gain of about two and a half million, when they're prepared to see unemployment rocket as high as 20% and instead, they get to see 13.3%. it was such a shock that they had to take it in, then they started buying and haven't stopped buying. the corner of wall and broad, we have the dow in and out of a 1,00

richard besser with us, former acting director of the cdc.ce through that. on these spikes that you are hearing about, they seem to be from a good news side of this affecting the young, who are generally more resistant to seeing the disease progress and god forbid kill them, so there is that. and there is some inevitability to, with all the testing going on, to see such spikes. so that balance is something the administration had been stressing. do you agree with that? >> well, i think there are a number of things going on. one is that we are seeing a lot more cases in young people because of behavior, the activities that young people are engaged in. but what really concerns me is that young people don't keep to young people, and you have some young people who will have a bad time with this infection, most will be well, but young people can bring it home, bring it to older relatives who are at increased risk, will have contact with essential workers, many of whom have medical issues that put them at risk. what we are seeing in places that are

richard besser, a former acting director of the cdc and was appointed by new jersey governor phil murphy coordinating the state's reopening. also with us emergency physician and public health professor at george washington university, dr. leana wen, served as baltimore's health commissioner. >> dr. besser, we have been watching in florida, numbers in florida, cases going up, we've been watching politician, we have been watching the president, we have been watching people on twitter, at one point demanding apologies to florida's governor ron tee san tis, saying look, we've democravoided all ps and the cases are going down. some of my friends doing that, i shook my head. we are, as dr. osar said, we are in the second inning of a nine-inning game. no time to put up mission accomplished signs behind us and declare victory, because as we see in the state of florida the numbers keep going up. >> you know, joe, mike osarhome is correct there. we are in the early days of this pandemic and i'm worried about florida. i'm worried about a number of states not just seeing a rise in cases but they're

richard b z besser.appointmented by new jersey governor phil murphy to a board for reopening. and he had an op-ed entitled we ran the cdc, here's how to talk to the public. doctor besser, if you could please talk to the public about the health dry scrisis and tell where we stand with it. what is the science telling us? >> it's clear we're in early days of the pandemic, i don't think that's being communicated enough. as we see numbers going up in some states and going down in others. we have to reflect that so much of that has to do with the behaviors we're taking or not taking. you see states putting out road maps of going from phase one to two to three, that call for more and more be seen as a two-way street. states are going to try things. they're going to get people back to work hopefully in safe ways. but if it's not working or they see a rise, that means that you have to back stab, you have to go back to more social distancing. and one of my biggest concerns, mika, is states aren't looking hard enou