and at that time, i wrote a book, former republican congressman mickey edwards, and in it, he pointedut that it's the system. i never looked back. i could never unseat that. it was immediately evident that candidates, culture, policy, they basically all, perhaps all will intended, with even say, go into this -- well intended, let's even say, go into this system, and it spits out dysfunction. this system delivers reliably, like a machine, gridlock and division. because it's built to do that. and what's so shocking to me, and away, is how i've never seen that -- in a way, is how i've never seen that before. but it's all about the system. as i often say now, the rules of the game, any game, the rules of the game, affects the way the game is played and affects the outcome of that game. so in order to change the way the game is played and the outcomes, we have to change the rules. in the entire book is really a lead up to the action section where we say what rules need to be changed in order to change results wer and the get out of congress. susan: he referred to congress as a duopoly. wha

city council or amanda edwards and former member of the united states house of representatives mickey edwards. they will be discussing michael's new book "cry havoc" which recounts the story of the white supremacist actions in charlottesville during 2017 that left one antiracist processor dead and the entire country wondering what the trump era had brought to the forefront . kirkus reviews calls the book deeply introspective and it's a complex, disturbing and valuable tale of racial disharmony, government failure and one man's frantic attempt to save the day and now i'm so happy to turn things over to my speakers. michael, amanda and nicky the digital podium is yours. >> thanks audrey. i'm going to start first and i want to say that it's really a pleasure to be able to do this, to be with amanda and mike both as friends especially because this book is so timely. it is actually mike, it would have been i thought it's time right after charlottesville and i right after that happened if this book had come out it would be great but it's more important because of what's developed since. there's a p