members of the house on monday don't see this as an opportunity -- what i call an old-fashioned perry mason thinking he's going to break down on the stand and say, "yes, i colluded with donald trump to screw this election." i want them to stay on the facts and don't ask open-ended questions. >> hear hear. i wish they'd get a lawyer, give the lawyer questions, let the lawyer ask the questions in a meticulous manner, not just about what happened in the past, but what we can expect to happen between today and election day, to make sure that every american's vote, republican and democrat alike, independent, every vote gets counted, instead of, again, posing for the cameras and yelling and screaming at the postmaster general. so, john heilemann, what caused dejoy's reversal? it was extraordinarily dramatic. >> well, joe, i would just want to -- i mean, look, he is under a lot of public pressure, obviously, and under a lot of political pressure, and he's been hauled up before congress. i am not yet convinced on the basis of what happened yesterday that there is as much to this as we've -- i mean,