we often think as the conservative media as the origins but i think that roger ailes and some of the founders were already looking at with what republicans have done when they came on the scene and they mimic that memo and how they broadcast the news. >> host: talk about what happened with clinton's impeachment. talk about his own downfall. >> guest: it is a shakespearean story here he is bringing together these tactics greater than the opportunity society and it's now the majority behind him. we know that it stems from the affair but in the end it will bring him down rather than bill clinton. at one level, above the politics is exposed and he had a pretty fierce temper and wasn't a likable person. but 1998 in the midterms, in the middle of the impeachment a lot of republicans are unhappy with the gingrich because of this and just as important, he is yet in another affair as the republicans are going after bill clinton for the same sort of issues of the republicans get rid of him. on the one hand, it's the downfall and on the other hand it's kind of fitting because he showed they wer

. >> yes, and roger ailes is the ghost that still looms over fox news today.ob running fox during the last gop convention, on the same night that president trump, now-president trump accepted the nomination and gave his speech in cleveland. ailes was forced out, but you know what? people there feel like there's no leader now. i talked to hundreds of people in and around fox news, because i feel like it is the most important untold story of the trump years. the president has his brain poisoned by the nonsense and misinformation that he hears on fox. so what i wanted to know from sources inside the building was, who's in charge? who's making sure that accurate information gets to the president and millions of viewers? and the unfortunate answer is nobody. the place is kind of -- it's one of those situations where as a source said to be, the inmates are running the asylum. yes, there are consecutives, there -- executives and a management team, but the place is run like feif doms. trump filled the vacuum and became the president of fox news because nobody else was

i had a host say to me, the network was also produced for an audience of one, roger ailes. even when ailes was gone, it was still produced for a person of one, but that was trump. whether you're the biggest trump fan in the world or his worst critic, that's a bad thing for the country. it's not a good thing for the country to have a president with a propaganda network at his disposal. it actually hurts him. i think it hurts him all the time. when stars like hannity try to help him, it actually hurts him because they're feeding him poisoned information, obsessing over portland, obsessing over hate crime hoaxes, other stories that don't help trump reach the rest of the country. they only please the base. >> we'll see. i mean, we'll see. they did help elect him. we'll see if it works again. i mean, if all the portland stuff that he and fox are hitting so hard, if that ends up resonating, we'll see. i mean, i think the jury is actually still out on that. >>> coming back live here, what alison just said in our interview, that is the cliffhanger of 2020. what's going to happen wit

is it safe to say roger ailes drew much from gingrich's -- [inaudible] or does that give gingrich too much credit? >> no, it doesn't. that's a very clear argument. roger ailes is a republican consultant in the 1980s before he does folk, so he's watching very closely, he's verying cognizant of the kind of politics that's working for beginning are rich. he's there throughout everything i write about, and i think this is very much on his mind. i mean, ailes was interested both in producing information that would help the gop but also producing conservative information that would attract viewers. i mean, this was important to him. and what he understood was the kind of language he had seen from gunning rich and his allies was functional. so i don't think that's a stretch at all. and, again, it's interesting the sequence, because the politicians come first, and the media came second. and now they were together in the current period. >> our next question comes from actually two different people asking basically the same question, patty barnes and steve asking to compare and contrast gingric

>> it doesn't, that's a very fair argument, roger ailes is a republican consultant in the 1980s before he does fox so is watching very closely very cognitive of the kind of politics that is working for gingrich, he's there throughout everything i write about and i think this is very much on his mind and they were interested in producing information that would help the gop but also producing conservative information that would attract viewers, this is important to him and what he understood as the kind of language he is seen from gingrich and his allies was functional. i don't think that's a stretch at all, it is interesting the sequence and the politicians come first and the media came second, now they were together in the current. >> our next question comes from two different people with the same question patty barnes and steve asking to compare and contrast gingrich's policies to mcconnell's politics, what is a relationship like, are they on the same page or are they different. >> the personal relationship i don't know much about but in terms of how mcconnell practices both when he w

roger ailes was fired. he died. no one took over. there's a lack of leadership, and that lack of leadership was most devastating when the pandemic hit american shores. it's as if the president was lulled into a false sense of complacency by fox. he pretended like the threat was over, and so did the network. and like i said in the book, we'll never know exactly how many lives were lost as a result. but it is terrifying to think that the president is so misled by this single network. >> you detail a number of policy pronouncements by the president, actions by the president that appear to have come directly from, in many cases, chyrons, the on-screen text put up by specific fox programs. you describe them as sort of a shadow cable news government that appears to select policies for him knowingly. they may have been shocked at the beginning how much influence they had, but they know they have it now. they're using it knowingly while privately maintaining, many of your sources to you, that they believe the president is unwell, is mentally

one of the things you right about in "hoax" is how the 2016 convention on the republican side, roger ails was fired from fox. and your book, in large part, as a media book, is about how that -- losing that rudder, whatever he thought of roger ails from a million different angles, is something that's never been replaced at the network. what do you see is the future there? i don't feel like you have a -- you're giving us a clear sense of where trump and fox go together, from here on out. >> well, the last five years have been unpredictable. no one thought trump was going to get elected. no one at fox expected it. so, you know, there was network because there was no other leader, and now folks inside fox, including at the very top, the murdochs, they're concerned about what happens if he loses. will he try to launch his own network? i think the only way our information ecosystem can get more poisoned, rachel, is if trump has his own tv network and tries to compete with fox and tries to go even deeper down the rabbit hole, down that kind of qanon world. that's a fear inside fox corporation th

roger ailes was fired, died, no one took over, lack of leadership and most devastating when the pandemicmerican shore. it's as if the president was lulled into false sense of complacency by fox. he pretended the threat was over, so did the network. and as i said, never know how many lives were lost as result. but terrifying to think the president is so misled by this single network. >> you detail a number of policy pronouncements and actions by the president, wild accusations and provocations from the president that appear to have come directly from chirons put up, describe them as shadow government that appear to be knowingly, they have it now, using it knowingly, and privately maintaining they believe the president is unwell, is mentally not there, not capable of holding down the job. that doesn't just feel dangerous, it feels like an incredibly salient political decision. >> it's nothing close to journalism, you know. and there are real journalists at fox uncomfortable with this, disturbed by the situation. they don't have the power. primetime folks, "fox and friends" people have the

. >> for someone to come is it safe to say roger ailes from gingrich's wedge issue and defining fox newsill recognize today or does not give gingrich too much credit. >> it doesn't, that could be an argument, roger nielsen republican consultant in the 1980s before he does fox, he is watching very closely, he's very cognitive of the kind of politics that is working for gingrich, he is there to corrupt everything that i write about and this is very much on his mind and he is interested in producing information that would help the gop but also producing conservative information that would attract viewers, this was important to him and what he understood was the kind of language he had seen from gingrich and his allies were functional. i don't think that's a stretch at all and again, it's interesting with the sequence, the politicians come first and the media came second and now they were together in the current. >> our next question comes from two different people with the same question, patty barnes and steve asking to contrast gingrich policies to mcconnell politics, what was the relation

is it safe to say roger ailes got much from the issues we recognize today or does that give gingrich to much credit? so that is a very fair argument. roger is republican consultant in the 1980s before he does fox. so he's watching very closely is very cognizant of the kind of politics working for gingrich bread he's there through everything i write about. i think this is very much on his mind. they're interested in both using information that would help the gop but also producing conservative information that would attract viewers. that is important in the kind of language was functional. i don't think that's a stretch at all. again it's interesting sequence. because the politicians come first. now they were together in a current. >> lex question comes from two different people asking basically the same question. patty barnes and steve, can you address gingrich policies politics? what is the relationship like? are they on the same page are different? so the person relationship i don't know much about. but how macconnell practices both when he was minority and majority leader is very g

>> that is a very fair argument, roger ailes is a republican consultant in the 1980s before he does fox, he is watching very closely, he's very cognitive of the politics that is working for gingrich, he is there throughout everything that i write about and i think this is very much on his mind, he's also interested in producing information that would help the gop but also producing conservative information that would attract viewers. what he understood was the language he has seen from his allies that were functional. i don't think that's a stretch at all, it's interesting of the sequence, the politicians come first, the media came second and now get together in the current. >> our next question comes from two different people is patty burns and steve asking to compare his policies to the politics. what is the relationship like, are they in the same page were different? >> the personal relationship i don't know much about but in terms of how mcconnell practices both when he was minority and majority leader, isaac is very gingrich like, the premise of the partisanship is the partisanship

he used that to get a job in a real radio station, went to huntsville, atlanta, and roger ailes broughtws. now in the trump age everybody else is gone from fox, left or been fired. han sit still there. hannity is the survivor and trump knows he needs him. this is a mutually codependent relationship and at the same time behind the scenes hannity says trump is a run-on sentence, ablg acts like a crazy person, i can't get in a word edge wise. >> it's worse than what you're saying here. you have reporting that behind the scenes, because trump calls happenity all t i hannity and they talk at least one once a day, he says he's bat blank crazy. >> this is from multiple friends and colleagues of hannity who i've interviewed for this book. i worked on this for a couple years because i feel the untold story is the trump addiction and explains a loft the wrong-headed behavior that's happened. i think hannity is so focused on his business, on his rating success, he doesn't say what he really thinks about trump. >> and how has it taken a physical and emotional or at least mental toll that you descri

campaign that was largely on television, pre-selected panelists, all orchestrated by a man named roger ailes. >> michael beschloss, full of historic references. thank you for being part of our coverage. as we await our first glimpse of this democratic ticket. >>> another break for us. the first member of congress to endorse senator kamala harris and her presidential run and we await the start of this event featuring the democratic ticket for the very first time, joe biden and kamala harris, together in wilmington, delaware. our coverage continues right after this. verage continues rigt after this t, you're unstoppable. no sweat! try it and love it or get your money back. introducing ore-ida potato pay. where ore-ida golden crinkles are your crispy currency to pay for bites of this... ...with this. when kids won't eat dinner, potato pay them to. ore-ida. win at mealtime. potato pay them to. just between us, cleaning with a mop and bucket is such a hassle. well i switched to swiffer wet jet and it's awesome. it's an all-in-one that absorbs dirt and grime deep inside. and it helps prevent strea