that is the relationship between pwi and hbcus. i live in milwaukee which is obviously a pwi, in speaking with colleagues for years cross the nation, i have always try to counteract which i called it elitist attitude of some pwi that hbcus are less then four they are from a research and an academic tier. that was really the discussion for years. if we want to be honest about that. >> having said that, there are a number of things that happens that started to erode that thinking. right? hidden figures, at least they did watch the film. and understanding that these hbcus produced, in the medical field, attorneys, engineers, mathematicians, astrophysicists. and also understanding that at pwi, the diversity of difficulty is not there. so now the discussion on many pwi is, how do we partner with hbcus and in some back corners it's not really about partnering. it's really about poaching. so my question to you, both of you, what advice would you give to someone from pwi who seek to partner with hbcus particularly around their approach and