every nation on a son or daughter get corroded arse in kenya as safe as i am here in london samantha vandersloot india south africa and some 55 other countries as well saying have gone to the world trade organization to argue for access to covert 19 patients what are the chances of so far none of the big heavy hit is if they have a grade to it what are the chances do you think that this will ever work. so the richer countries are blocking this movement isn't looking likely that that's going to change the w.t. c.e.o. level what i do see is this scenario access will be opened up there is a question of how quickly this can happen so if we look and see retroviral hiv aids we don't want to be in a situation where access to those kind of drugs take decades and years and years i am very hopeful that covert 19 buckskins will become more widely available but it's the speed that we really need to be put in pressure on ok that's an attack up on that if speed is the issue you know we have these vaccines that are already in place but if speed is the issue is there a danger that if we don't get the vaccine ou

know all of the announcements about the amounts of money that were going into these programs samantha vandersloot you know couldn't governments have put contractual caviar it's into those deals at the time when they were putting money into these drug companies which were doing the development have we already missed the bus on it so it could have been possible in the time i think under the conditions this is not something that the governments ended up doing i think under the pressure to to change the pharmaceutical system. was probably too much of the tosk but it doesn't mean that things can't be done from some now and i don't think we've missed the boat completely. thomas pogge should we be questioning the extent of control that patent holders for covert 19 vaccines have. well i think what we should 1st and foremost question is the system that gives these companies peyton's in the 1st place we warding pharmaceutical innovation will monopoly patents is just not a very good way of knowing who 1st of all wants the alternative scarcely. but if you're trying to do this but i feel proposing for many ye

ok let's bring in our guests from oxford samantha vandersloot is a social science research are the oxford vaccine group and barcelona geoffrey last of us is the head of the health systems research group at the barcelona institute for global health and with us from gun talk in the indian state of sick in the secret chettri as a medical doctor and member of unesco's international bioethics committee welcome to the program thank you very much indeed for being with us geoffrey there's been a difference of course between people hesitating to get the vaccine and people refusing to get the vaccine but in the short term the result is pretty much the same why is this such public uncertainty about some of these vaccines. well there is a lot of myths circulating there's also some concerns about this speed in which the vaccines were were approved so we try to explain that the process was able to go quickly for a number of reasons including a high uptake in disappears in the clinical trials careful oversight rolling reviews by the regulatory agencies and so there's a there's a you know as you mentione