but one of the women was madison's grandmother. her name was francis madison. and i first became interested in her because of a note she wrote when madison was a child and they were all living together. her note look like a shopping list and at the top of it it said for an epilepsy. the 18th century medical books that i so much enjoy taught me that some of the items on her list gentian root saffron camphor. were thought to be good for breaking a fever which suggests that madison may have had fever related seizures as a child. they are not regarded as epilepsy today, but can be part of a syndrome. federal seizures as a child epileptic seizures as an adult. well francis was quite a woman. and the more i learned about her the more interesting i found her. she and her husband were the first to move the first of their family to move to the virginia piedmont. and not long after they moved there. it was the frontier. he died. poisoned by a slave the records say and running the plantation fell to her. she had to learn the details of growing tobacco when to plant the se

madison, who was 43. now, dolley's 26 and madison's 43, turned aaron burr -- this is sort of the one big cousinry thing, even when you're not related in the 18th century united states, everybody knew everybody. he turned to aaron burr because he and burr had gone to princeton together. he arranged an introduction. dolley was thrilled at the prospect. she wrote to a friend, thou must come to see me. aaron burr is bringing -- i love this line, the great little madison, to see me this evening. [ laughter ] dolley wore mulberry satin and yellow glass beads to greet james in her parlor. and four months later they were married. now, i am of the conviction that political wives, political spouses, generally, can't really do much to help their husbands or wives' careers. it's a good thing if a political spouse behaves herself or himself and stays out of trouble. but as a general rule, unless they are rich, political spouses don't do much to forward their spouse's ambitions. now, of course, for every rule there is

madison's seat.y, it's odd to be having a dinner party when washington was in exodus, but she was trying to hold the capital together even while it was falling apart. so she had fully intended to have a dinner party that day. >> here is the text of the letter she wrote her sister as she was fleeing the white house. and now, dear sister, i must leave this house or the retreating army will make me a prisoner in it by filling up the road i am directed to take. when i shall again write you to or where i shall be tomorrow i cannot tell. >> of course after the british had burned washington, there was a great deal of conversation, even in congress, about should the capital remain in washington, which was, you know, now destroyed, or should they move the capital back to philadelphia. and so james and dolley leased the octagon house, which was only a few blocks away, and immediately began to entertain in a grand style. and this really sent a signal to the diplomats in washington, to the congress, to the peopl

madison. i might had a better chance had i faced mr. madison alone. finally in march of 1809, dolley finds her center stage as wife of the president. of course she had experience hosting on f street and the white house. she knew how to use her social skills to use for all these causes and she knew what it was like to face unwarranted criticism simply for being in the public eye. now it's time for her to put all these lessons to good work. she accomplished all she did with this amazing, unique style. style was very important to this young nation. you know, what we had done was unprecedented in the world. we set up this republic, protecting the natural rights of its citizens. we had this entirely new way of working together as a political body in a world where most power was still held by very, very few people. so how we did things was going to in a way define who we become. every government needs protocol to function but the only model we were really familiar with was the european courts. we needed a new american way of how to be. and dolley got that.

madison's papers. to me that becomes almost in some ways, something so important that we should not lose sight of it. we know so much about the founding period because of those papers were not burnt in the white house. they do order that general, that part should be saved, and not be left to be vandalized, and it has been actually mailed in a wooden frame to the wall, so they have to break the frame, pull out the nails, roll the portrait up, and then she puts it in good hands for safekeeping. then, and only then, does she agreed to evacuate. and her pluck during these perilous moments, partly true and partly mythologized overtime, did then and now earn the everlasting gratitude and admiration of a country. now, in the months that followed the burning of the white house and of d.c., dolley shared her loss with something -- the beautifully appointed rooms that she helped create, and that was her old friend and decorating partner mary literally, light to benjamin trove. she writes to her, two hours before

madison. the endeavor of this last year and a half has been to find our way forward, a constitution, a written constitution that the people might debate is the natural and best course for our future. however, this is where i counter the gentlemen in that this document is in its way the one that must be ratified. i say nay, there are too many problems still inherent. this is unchartered territory, to be certain. but for that reason, we must endeavor the revolt against great britain some years ago is nothing compared to what lies before us now. we have an opportunity to create a government not in the time of war but in a time of peace. those articles of confederation will woefully, woefully insufficient for our causes, however we must recognize now. though we have a system before us that is better than what was before, that does not make it close enough to what the people of america deserve. inherent in it, there are insufficiencies, shortcomings, there are dangerous, the seeds for monarchy or a

wonderful book madison's metronome. and wiener shows in this book that the founders first of all resisted direct democracy in favor of a representative republic. they feared that the direct expression of popular benefits of an extended republic. we know from classical theory that, classical sources believed democracy was impossible and large republics because face to face deliberation would create assemblies that were too large and would degenerate into chaos. but the framers, first of all, by devising the representatives system, believed they made it possible for larger territories to rule themselves. most importantly, second, they believed the large size of the american republic meant that large factions cannot easily organize. the definition of faction in federalist ten, any group, whether a majority or a minority, animated by passion rather than reason, and by self interest rather than the public good. the idea was in a large republic, it would be hard for self interested groups to organize, to discover each other,

madison. pleasure as always. now today we are going to begin with a brief opening statement as we lawyers like to call them where i'll give each of these gentlemen a chance to state his case in an overview later on we'll go back and ask more specific questions both for me and from other people who are interested in this debate mr. madison. can we begin with you? i should be honored sir. good day, ladies and gentlemen i shall love for the purposes of exhortium and introduction in endeavor to be succinct. you know first i will open by saying that from the first moments. i was capable of contemplating political principles. i have never ceased wishing success it all well regulated republican experiment of government. the success of such in america has been my utmost wish. now 12 years ago. we embarked upon a singular experiment one for which philosophy has waited for one for which humanity has side for. from the most remote ages of our common experience a war was won to secure that independence an

madison feared a second convention. unlike jefferson who wanted a convention every ten years, he thought it was a miracle that given the fact that it was practical politicians who came together in philadelphia, they produced the genius document that he did, and he feared a second convention would create mobs because it would be the same legislators who were wreaking havoc in the united states. i don't have the answer on how to slow down the technologies in order to promote reason rather than passion. although the facebook algorithm example is one small tweak. but it's important, as you suggest, not to resist these technologies and to say that people should live in an age of horse and buggies and quill pens. we have to enthusiastically embrace these technologies which is where we and all of our students live and train ourselves to use them wisely for reason and also debate about ways of presering the structures that prevent us from using the technologies to make quick decisions that can't be reversed. thank you for that.

madison would approve that. just like madison. >> i'll tweet it to the president. >> you can tweet to him, but he's not supposed to listen to you. >> no. >> because madison is considering should the people be able to issue direct instructions to their representatives and their presidents, and he says no because you want to setup barriers and cooling mechanisms. and the reason this is nonpartisan our first tweeting president was president obama. he was the first president to setup a twitter account and the framers and madison didn't think that kind of direct instruction by the people to their representatives or direct communication to the people was a good idea because they want slow reason to prevail. so when roosevelt and wilson are insisting that the president can channel popular passion, taft is appalled and he runs for president to defend the constitution. he loses, one of the greatest defeats in political history, but he goes on with great distinction to serve as chief justice. there's another important cha

tell me about madison in the summer and fall? >> summer, many opportunities to get outside, enjoy the lakes and neighborhoods. in the fall you live in this part of the world and get beautiful color. 270 parks in madison. >> reporter: no place is perfect. even madison. >> when we make another number one for top ten, clearly true for white population, is it also true for people of color? answer is almost always no, it's not also true. that's part of our work going forward. >> reporter: madison isn't the only great climate haven city. >> looks like it's nighttime. >> reporter: cashmans moved as far from wildfires as could get, vermont. couldn't be happier. >> beautiful, green, not dry. there's no fires. that i know of. >> just a very functional, athletic, happy, healthy place. >> community embraced us. immensely. with our children, and i knew, i said we made the right decision. we made of couourse you've seen underwear that fits like this... but nenever for blbladder leaks. always disiscreet boututique bl. i fefeel protectcted all d

>> at montpelier we use a james madison reenactor and a dolly madison reenactor who are highly vetted and very good at what they do. one guy reads the same newspaper madison would have read 200 years ago. he's great, he looks like madison, he's strange. i think when interpretation is done well, it's great. i also say it's really hard to do it well. and when you're looking at a plantation site in particular, it's hard to do well because of the people you would need on staff to interpret it accurately. >> yeah. yeah. >> same. we contract people in. most of the interpreters we use are professionals from colonial williamsburg. they aren't there all the time but they come to monticello sometimes because they're really good at what they do. but for the most part, i think my answer to your question would be yes, right, which is better, yes, depends on the situation, depends on who you're using and what kind of digital work is being put out. >> i would just caution you not to use technology for the sake of technology, right? don't use technology for the whiz bang factor, use it because it's t

so he plays jefferson and madison. ultimately jefferson wants a simple federal bricktown of only a few acres. so hamilton agrees that they could have a design contest jefferson could share the committee that picks the winning design. appears that jefferson submits his own design anonymously for a little brick town and then picks it. what jefferson didn't know was even though he said here's the design when it went to washington washington said nope. we're going to pick my romanesque capital. so there you go the residence act of 1790 solidified or codified the straight compromise. the capital would be in virginia, but ten years later in the mean while in the interim. it would be in philadelphia while they have build city that would eventually be named for george washington and that's the residence act of 1790 the votes on a lot of these difficult measures fail and here you see george washington playing political chess mass when washington wanted to flip a vote you bet. he did washington's strategically picked a couple of

>> at montpelier we use a james madison re-enactor and dolley madison, who are highly vetted. the same guy that reads the newspaper that madison would have read 200 years ago every day of his life so he's really into it. and he's great. he's exactly the same age madison was 200 years ago and he looks like -- it's strange. but that being said, i think when costumed interpretation, first-person interpretation is done well, it's great. i also say that it's really hard to do it well. when you're looking at a plantation site in particular, it's hard to do well because of the people you would need on staff to interpret it accurately. >> yeah, yeah. >> same. we contract people in. we use professionals from colonial williamsburg. for the most part, you know, i think my answer to your question would be yes. which is better, yes, depends on the swa igs. and it depends on who you're using or what kind kf digital work is being put out. >> i would caution you not to use technology for the sake of technology. don't use technology for the whiz bang factor. use it because it's the best method

the madison family, dolly sells the place in the 1840s, they have no kids and the madison family has never really come back in a meaningful way to montpelier. where the african-american community that lived there first in enslavement and later in semi forms of freedom are still around and still active at montpelier today. i want to tell you a little about what we've done the last 20 years which gets us to the big project we just opened in june. the point here is that what we did, the exhibit that we opened in june would not have been possible without the 20 years that preceded it, okay? this is really important for historians to think about. you can't just get a chunk of money and have this big, meaningful exhibit. you have to put in your time with the community. so in 2000, or in 1999, rebecca gilmore coleman who is in the far right approached us about the falling-down cabin that was across the street from our main gate. in the 1980s when the national trust acquired montpelier, there were over 160 structures on the property, and the only ones we really knew much about were the montp

we also started selling 11 madison home meals.lly beautiful meals for weekends or special occasions. part of that price goes toward operating this food truck that is operated by the 11 madison part team that gives away food to insecure people on a daily paid -- basis. we do reopen, a part of every meal we will provide five males for the food insecure. what i love about it is the circular economy that everyone who is part of 11 madison park, suppliers everyone has their hands in doing good. it's a new model for luxury and using our platform and being this culinary destination in other ways. matt: a lot of people wonder why the restaurant industry that is getting hit the hardest is the one to reach out like this? you think it's a model that wall street could follow as well? goldman sachs, which is doing so well and i don't mean to single them out, a lot of the big banks are doing incredibly well during the pandemic, they also have programs like this where they reach out to marginalized communities. >> i think it is an issue that has

madison's observations, respecting mr. monroe, he appeared much affected and spoke with some degree of disparity on the subject. what prompt add washington's aspirty regarding james monroe? standing behind the general in glorious though profoundly inaccurate painting, washington crossing the delaware. how did these two virginians, who hailed from the same region and whose families were acquainted over generations go from being soldiers in a common cause to bitter political foes? george washington and james monroe were each born to families that inhabted westmoreland county, virginia, since the 17th century. evidence of includes a notice from 1661 describing investigation of a suicide in the county. john washington, the coroner, was george's great grandfather. the first member of the jury listed andrew monroe was the great, great grandfather of james. as shown on the map by peter frye and robert jefferson, the birthplaces of washington and monroe were separated by only a few miles. yet they had no apparent contact in their

i'm pretty sure madison was not in on that part, but madison was very committed to all of the things we've just talked about and they were the two kind of young hot shot lawyers in the continental congress pouring over the articles of confederation to find ways to expand the power the federal power, you know, madison was committed to the federal power and to nationhood and everyone. that only later did the differences between hamilton and madison become so overwhelming. the enemies that hamilton had in the 1780s are a group of people whose names are not super well known, but they represent a movement a populist movement, which had its own ideas about finance if i may use that word about money about american wealth about accountability to the people and they meant themselves the ordinary people. these are people frequently without the vote because of course you had to have property to have the vote and to run for office you had to have even more property. this they wanted the vote. they wanted to vote for white men. i'm talking about but they wanted the vote for white men without prop

the madison family, delhi sells it in 18 forties, they have no kids, and the madison family has nevercome back in a meaningful way to montpelier where the african-american community that lived there, later in semi forms of freedom, are still around and active at montpelier today.irfz i want to tell you a little bit about what we've done over the last 20 years. and gets us to do big project we just opened with in june. the point is that what we did, the exhibit that we open in june, would not have been possible without the 20 years they proceeded it. and this is really important for historic to think about, you can't just get the chunk of money and then, you know, i have this big meaningful exhibit, you have to have, you have to put in your time with committee. so, in 2000, for 1999, -- i was in the far-right approached us about the falling down cabinet that was across the street from our main gate. in the 19 eighties, when the national, they're over 160 structures on the property. we knew much about where the space of 25,000 square feet added to it and the temple, which sits right nex

madison, you are muted. madison: i hate when that happens. let's go to jonathan, catherine, and come back to you, meredith. jonathan: i am the vice president for trade and international affairs trade and international medicine. first, thank you for the invitation. i appreciate the opportunity to discuss critical issues on how we ensure the u.s. has a vibrant and secure functional supply chain and how to work with our allies going forward to make that happen. our industry, global diversity is important to functioning redundant supply chain. no one country can manufacture all medicines to make sure their patients have access to affordable and assessable treatments when they need them. since it is difficult for the u.s. generic manufacturers to compete against low-priced imported products, a sustainable market must be created that creates predictable volumes and prices. how do you design that system is not easy, but crucial to provide incentives necessary to encourage that investment, especially the pharmaceutical sector where price is often the

former chief justice john marshall, who is behind madison.ut monroe was ill for most of the time, and had to resign before the convention adjourned in 1830. elizabeth monroe, she died in 1830. her grieving spouse went to mariah's home in new york city. unable to return to virginia, monroe died in 1831, after the deaths of thomas jefferson and john adams. after an elaborate funeral, of which there was an estimated 70,000 attendees, monroe was buried in new york cities marble cemetery. the commonwealth of virginia had his remains taken and brought to virginia. elijah his daughter is actually buried in paris. when they created the two, the birch birdcage it's a familiar landmark if you will if you have or been there. this is an 1865. that's a photograph, scene there and for the first time since its creation, the tomb has been restored. and has been going through an extensive process, of refurbishment in which almost Ñ iron has been replaced. and i'm hopeful, that it will be ready in time for monroe's birthday observance coming up this april. bec

>> at montpelier, we use a james madison and dolly madison reenactor that are highly vetted and veryat what they do and a little bit weird. one guy reads the same newspaper that madison would have read 200 years ago, every day of his life. he is really into it. and he is great, he's exactly the same age medicine was 200 years ago, and he looks like him. it's strange. that being said i think when costume interpretation, first person interpretation is done well, it is great. i also say that it is really hard to do well. and when you are looking at a plantation site in particular, it's hard to do well because of the people that you would need on staff to interpret it accurately. >> same, most of the interpreters we use our professional's, they're out there all the time. and they come to want a cello sometimes because they're really good at what they do. but for the most part, i think my answer to your question is yes, what is better? it depends on the situation. and it depends on who you are using or what type of digital work you are putting out. >> thank you. >> i would caution you not

madison's observations, respecting mr. munro, he appeared much affected and spoke with some degree of asperity on the subject." what prompted washington's asperity regarding james monroe? shown here standing behind the general in emanuel leutze's glorious but profoundly inaccurate painting, "washington crossing the delaware." how did these two virginians who hailed from the same region and whose families were acquainted over generations go from being soldiers in a common cause to bitter political foes? george washington and james monroe were each born to families that had inhabited west moreland county virginia since the mid-17th century. evidence of their antecedents'association includes a notice from 1661 describing the investigation of a suicide in the county. john washington, the coroner, was george's great-grandfather. the first member of the jury listed was the great rate -- great great grandfather of james. as shown on a map made by jonathan fry and peter just got -- joshua fry and peter jefferson made in 1775 -- th

chief justice who is seated immediately behind madison. but monroe was ill for much of the time and had to resign before the convention adjourned in 1830. elizabeth monroe died in 1830. her grieving spouse went to new york city physically unable to return to virginia, monroe died on july 4, 1831, five years to the day after the deaths of thomas jefferson and john adams. after an elaborate funeral in which there was an estimated 70,000 attendees, monroe was buried in new york city's marble cemetery. commonwealth of virginia had his remains exhumed in 1858 and reintured into cemetery. their daughter is actually buried in paris. the ornate gothic revival tomb, the bird cage as it's called over the monroe tomb there in hollywood cemetery is a familiar landmark, if you ever been there. this is in 1865 photograph soon after richmond's fall. the tomb has been restored and going through an extensive process of refurbishment in which almost 30% of the original iron has been replaced. and i'm hopeful that it's going to be ready in time for monroe's

he was present with madison of the battle of bladensburg on august 24th, 1814. where the british quickly routed an american force of regulars and poorly organized. militia monroe personally redeployed at least one unit in the american line with little apparent effect on the outcome. follow this cartoon implies that madison fled in panic from the field of battle he and most of the cabinet including monroe stayed on the field until the end and narrowly avoided capture. the british moved on to washington dc where they burned many public buildings including of course the white house on road was elected president in 1816. he and his wife elizabeth undertook the restoration and refurbishing of the white house a project that would continue throughout his two terms in office. elizabeth monroe's experiences first lady was characterized by a fondness for european-style salons that were not always always well received by washington's society. she also endured a range of physical ailments that prevented her from being the white house hostess her daughter taking over many ti

jefferson and madison set up -- they invite one of madison's college classmates, toe -- give him the -- meaningless job in the state department as a translator and doesn't even speak foreign languages, and -- >> five employees and puts one in does a meaningless person. >> i don't know if counts as one of the five. the idea was he would start a national newspaper and be -- he was vicious critic of hamilton and a fawning admirer of jefferson. and, again, washington would have seen this as act of gross betrayal that jefferson is in his cabinet and he is setting up and funding an antiadministration newspaper, and these types of activities continue. jefferson is early son friendly toward citizen againe, the french envoy who whips support of the french revolution in violation of washington's proclamation of neutrality and there's a number of times where madison and jefferson are bordering on disloyalty in their hatred of hamilton basically, spurring them to take sides against the administration in which jeffersoned a least was serving. >> now, party of the reason for fearing of intrigue is

sarah polk and dolley madison with james kaye poke.hotography as a political tool, how to politicians absorb this new technology you really don't get into the 18 fifties and then the 1860 election when photography is everywhere. now it is almost a novelty in 18 forties and it's not all that terrific. first of, all you have to sit for a long time, it's not a single shot click and your pictures there. you have to actually sit there rigidly and not move while the photograph is being taken. so i think they are moving towards photography. what's much more important i think than photography is still the very sophisticated lionel type and the sophisticated art in newspapers so you had a wonderful campaign posters that are being done from what when polk polk runs for example. courier, who later becomes korean i've does a campaign poster for the opponent of polk henry clay. justice to harry in the west is the picture of harry henry clay. so, they are using that kind of technology photography i think, it probably want to save for the film oars a

this happened in madison, 2015.nson, a teenager, unarmed, was shot and killed by a madison police officer. that set off days of protests but no charges were filed and that officer is, as far as i can see and read and have read is still on your police force. the family reached a settlement over this eventually. but is this what we're talking about? does this need to be looked at with fresh eyes, a fresh set of eyes after what we're talking about? >> you know, i think that any case involving a law enforcement officer and a use of deadly force should be investigated. not only internally but from an outside agency and in the case that you referenced, it was looked at by the u.s. justice department. but more importantly, we need to figure out how do we sprent these from happening again and again and again? and our department we implemented the icat training model from the research forum. i think it's -- it should be a national standard for responding to people in crisis. i think we need to look not only at a first respon

how did madison tell jefferson what was happening? when it took -- in france when it took if they were lucky three or four weeks to get their message over there when marshal was negotiating what the idea was there. how did he know what the administration wanted him to do so -- i feel marshall is sitting there waiting for the right job and refuses all of these jobs and secretaryy of state and meanwhie of sorts secretary of state and chief justices at the same time. >> john roberts was, you know, asked by secretary of state he would have to quit one or another but who knows. but any case, he finally finds chief justice is job he wants because he can see where things are going where they are going between, you know, the newly found parties, the federalist and republicans, and he can see that where the -- where might happen between legislative and executive things people not listening to something and he can build up the supreme court or courts in general as o arbiters of this, d for the country i feel like it was preserving country he ca

the federalist papers are written anonymous by james and from madison, when they crafted the constitution they understood how important speech was especially anonymous designed to protect all of us. todd: you say this law is necessary to prevent fraud. having been a lawyer in california you know that state has more laws to regulate every single thing in the world that you know that is another law or two or 20 on the books to prevent the quote, unquote,

james madison was a prominent member of an institution called the colombian institute. it was a gentlemanly, scholarly society dedicated to, among other things, dissemination of natural history information. it was a kin to the american philosophical society of philadelphia or the academy of natural sciences in philadelphia, which was at that time the center of american scientific enterprise. james madison really wanted a botanic garden on federal property and was instrumental in the late 18 teens in having congress charter the first u.s. botanic garden. it was a small institution on the block where we currently stand in 1820. it was not however funded by taxpayer money. it existed for a little while, so there was a first version of the u.s. botanic garden from about 1820 until the late 1830's, when the colombian society began to peter out. and then, there was a gap. the story resumes in 1838. and that is a fascinating history beginning in 1838. congress is getting his interested in naval exploration, buoyed by the overland success of the lewis and clark expedition a few

is lieutenant madison's role?s kind of in charge of the city in the evening. what was ythe nature of your conversation with the lieutenant? >> i think i let him know that floyd was doing poorly. i think he was on the phone with internal affairs at the time giving them an update on what was going on. >> exhibit 78 is another image from the body-worn camera depicting lieutenant madison. offering exhibit 78. >> no objection. >> exhibit 78 is received. >> publish exhibit 78. what do you see in this photo? >> myself, some of the hospital staff. >> and it was after you made these observations that you spoke with lieutenant madison? >> yes. did you attempt after your conversation with lieutenant madison to gather more information from the defendant and officer thao? >> i did. i think he requested me to ask them if they used any other force. >> did you have that conversation with the defendant? >> i did. >> do you call what the defendant told you? >> i believe he said he knelt on floyd, knelt on his neck, something of tha

we've got a much-needed shot in the arm from another founding father in james madison. and james madison was a prominent member of an institution early on in the history of washington dc called the colombian institute, and it was a gentlemanly scholarly society that was dedicated to among other things the dissemination of natural history information in many ways. it was akin to the american philosophical society of philadelphia or the academy of natural sciences in philadelphia, which we're all so institutions in philadelphia, which was at that time the center of the american scientific enterprise james madison really wanted to see a botanic garden on federal property and he was instrumental in the late 18 teens in having congress charter the existence of the first us botanic garden. it was actually built in bricks and mortar as a small institution on the block where we currently stand in 1820. however, it was not at that time funded by taxpayer money, and so it existed for a little while. and so there was a us botanic garden or the first version of a us botanic garden

thank you madison, catherine. we don't like to look at big picture issues, we like to drill down into some of these topics. this has been really insightful and informative. we have some really interesting questions from the audience. when is a big picture question that you may be redirected at all the. now that we have a better understanding of demand shocks how you think the biden administration can better shape their supply chain that remains in effect as effects and impacts on some seo rent. anyone want to grab that one? >> -- we are at a place where we need a more cohesive, big picture policy that takes into effects what is on the government. german mark it. our national team needs and medical device area think wcl has rejected the government for cure in the u.s. for medical products, so i think as we get into discussions with other countries so you might deem to be trusted partners, they may want to work with us in a better, cooperative license event of the government code, and that will be clear was who star

>> the first madison square garden was in madison square. the one that is there now is the third.ut, they moved away because in fact development was coming up all around it and it was too hard. i talk a lot in the book and the theme of the book is really about how baseball is more of a city game. nevertheless it tended to be played kind of on the outskirts because even in those 19th century years, even when land was cheap, cities were also growing and developing really fast in this country. you did not put a ball field right in the very center of the central business district next to the bank. even then you needed more land and it was too expensive, so they would be kind of on the edge but the cities are growing so fast that those parts of land were off and then surrounded by development and became the center of the neighborhood. >> so speaking of -- >> fenway park is a good example of that. >> yes, we will get to that. i've never been there but you're going to tell me all about it. speaking of immigrants you have interesting facets in the book where you talk about the bifurcated