[laughter] >> i'm thrilled to talk with eric berkowitz one of the finest writers i know, especially when tackling a number of subjects like the history of censorship in the west. i love this book. most authors would be intimidated i think by that huge subject matter, but eric has a great talent of taking a big subject and serving it up in delicious little morsels of history. he's a great storyteller, and these are page-turning stories, full of betrayal and heroism which is always helpful and burning at the stake, all those amazing dramatic things. one reviewer has called this book a masterpiece, astounding, a comprehensive entertaining historical account of censorship, and that was not his mother. that was a real reviewer. [laughter] one of the major take aways for me, eric, and i love this book, after reading it, it seems to me a major theme is that censorship never really works, at least in the long run, is that how you see it too? i mean, you've got all these examples, but in the end, all these attempts to censor thoughts and words in whatever form fail, is that true? >> i think it's