it's essential we get his sworn testimony. >> eugene, when ruth marcus says it did not succeed thank goodness. i was hoping we could rely on more than that in the 2021 in america. i'm alarmed by the fact that this -- it may not have been entirely legal. if it were entirely illegal we may not know that for a while. in other words the whole idea that the government appointees members of the executive brarmg serve at the pleasure of the president, i always thought that meant he can appoint them and move them around. i didn't think he could use them to corrupt the democratic process. but apparently he can. >> well he is not the poster. that is the things, the founders and everyone they didn't really see this. they didn't expect to have apartment -- as you put it cronies and allies who would do something like this and who would try to put into motion an actual overturning of an election. that is something that, you know, you talked to experts who have been thinking about and talking about and writing about the people who founded this country for decades. and they are -- they are saying, y

ruth marcus is the deputy editorial for the "washington post."ut it is difficult to read the latest reports and not be alarmed. the drip, drip, drip evolution of this story has served to mask this story. ruth makes a critical point here, which is why where do these investigations go on capitol hill? speaker pelosi in the house has said let's put this in the selection committee. perhaps republicans will never believe anything produced by a democratic majority, but what is the plan to pull this together? just to lay it out on the record so that weeks from now, and years from now, people can look back at the details? >> i think the parallel paths that the senate and house are on is a big question for leadership. how do they merge these? for pelosi, it was important enough to put in one committee and even last week, she put out this statement congratulating the oversight chair on landing these interviews even though they hadn't technically interviewed rosen and others, and said okay, thank you for your hard work. now we're going to send this off to t

. ♪ >>> over the weekend, we learned more about what "washington post" columnist, ruth marcus, callsd in secret at the pinnacle of government. these were the events just before the january-6th riot foiled by the resist ps of a few officials. and it was just a few. two former-top officials at the justice department. former-acting attorney general, jeffrey rosen, and his acting deputy, richard donoghue, testified behind closed doors about attempts to push voter fraud allegations. according to a source, familiar with the testimony, much of what they said before staff at the senate judiciary committee was about attempts by one particular senior-department lawyer, jeffrey clark, to use department resources to push these false claims. just before the program, i spoke with the chairman of that committee, democratic senator, dick durban, about the testimony and investigation. . >> in the last administration, how concerned are you about the pressure they were under? >> let me tell you something, the pressure was as tough as it gets in this town of washington. here's the president of the unite