, i mean, gary gensler, she's been supporting gary gensler and for him being at the sec since day one number three she's obviously a partisan democrat now going after donald trump, who she obviously doesn't like on this whole spac thing that he's going to build-out his media property on or supposed to be a social media property. there's a lot of smoke here. i'm not saying it's going to get tossed because again, there's a little difference between this pittsburgh wheeling case, but, but, she's involved, it looks really crumby, it looks a lot like politics, and gary gensler, when she says jump, gary gensler generally says how high, because she is very close to him. now, absolutely true, liz. liz: no, i'm saying, if they start getting involved in these kinds of things just because it was donald trump -- charlie: why doesn't she just keep her mouth shut? if it's that bad they will look at everything, i just don't understand her getting involved in this , but she screwed them by doing it. now the case has taint. liz: well,dwac is up about 10% as i look. charlie: that's what they call it? l

chair gensler, take another look at the futures. vix now about 19 1/2 we're back in a me mont this is elodia. she's a recording artist. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist, and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. >>> they gets to pocket 20% of your investment. that's essentially what a special purpose acquisition company, a spac does >> that's s.e.c. chair gensler taking aim at special interest in a new video, saving in firepower. >> this was such a breath of fresh air. 24 he trashed them like -- this is a remarkable video, must be watched. >> we keep waiting we know these things take a while f do you have an expect, there are responsibility people who say onto be on the griddle when the chairman takes aim. t

now gary gensler's budget is, unfortunately, run by congress.esn't want to bite the hand that feeds him. he could stand up and say we are putting rules in place, the same way we have put rules in place for executives, we are putting rules in place for what might be described as politically exposed people, and we are going to create rules about what they can trade and how they can trade. he could do that if he so chose. >> do you have any reason to believe he's going to? these same lawmakers love to drag in executives for these hearings, yell at them for their behavior, yet they're not looking in a mirror and what they, themselves, do. any thought that maybe gensler will do anything? has he said anything? >> he has not. unfortunately, the incentive system as i just explained, his budget is at the whim, if you will, of congress. for him to effectively try to cut congress off and pelosi who clearly is publicly say that go she is not in favor of this, makes it very complicated. and i'm sure if you're gary gensler you're saying what are my priorities

emily: there is still no spot etf, though, and that depends on gary gensler. how much does it matter? michael: well, i think everybody is kind of perplexed that we're a little late with this, but i think that the writing is on the wall. there are 40 different etf applications in place, and in time i think over the next 12 months, we will see more and more etf's and more options, if the spot etf comes to the market, i think it is going to be really good for bitcoin in general and everybody involved in the bitcoin ecosystem. emily: you know, looking at robinhood results, their crypto trading dropped almost 80%. it was kind of astonishing how -- i spoke with the cfo who told me perhaps crypto trading had normalized. and i'm wondering what you make of that huge change in volume. i know it is just a window into robinhood, but i wonder if it signals something about broader interest or hype around cryptocurrency. michael: i mean, i think we have ebbs and flows and it is natural to have some cyclicality to it. i think q1 was a pretty good quarter. it's slow down after

gensler wants to protect us from these kinds of deals chairman of the s.e.c., doing incredible work toe sure this doesn't happen anymore. >> this is still somewhat uncertain. you have to list in hong kong and make the shares transferrable. there was some idea they may try to race some money and buy in the shares trading here. >> no one knows. they haven't made it clear we all remember coming public, a very brief window there, and then we got the news that the chinese were already unhappy with them, and sort of looking at them more closely in terms of cyberregulation, a lot of different things, and then it's advanced since then. at some point at the take a while to figure it out they have to list these shares somewhere else, that you potentially can, at least, transfer somewhere else. then you have to do flow-back issues and everything else everything goes back to that market telling people to buy it, and then they get the money back, it's not one of not. >> no, but you've been advocating for some time for -- >> i don't have to do it anymore, because gary gensler, if he gets his way, wi

gensler seems to imply that there's a problem here the data doesn't seem to support that, but what'setail trading has never been lower and you've seen that continuing you've seen that actually as a result of this new emerging group of retail traders that has joined our public markets through the pandemic >> the floor of the new york stock exchange, i know it's an old question, is the floor going down or going away for 20 years now, what's your plans for the floor? >> that's a question i love and it's a question that i think is a tremendous amount parallel to the business i run and the businesses we run at ice the most important thing is to take the best technology and people and marry those together. that's the way any tech-forward company thinks, any tech-forward company operates and that's what we are in my current business i employ 150 people around the globe that take models that provide real-time valuations for 2.8 million securities around the globe, and they provide the human intelligence to know what's garbage in and what's garbage out. during volatile periods you see us prov

chair gary gensler has taken a hard line on cryptocurrencies in general.t of the president's working group, along with jerome powell and janet yellen. but new york's attorney general, letitia james, has gone further. in february, she required tether to end all trading activity with new yorkers. tether claims that a virtual currency was fully backed by u.s. dollars at all times. that was a lie, she says. so right now, the sheriffs are looking for a fight, and the wild west is about to be tamed. this is decrypted. for more content like this, follow us on your favorite platforms. emily: bloomberg quicktake's eddie van der walt. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. make sure you tune in tomorrow. we are going to have more on crypto with the ceo of ok coin, plus we are going to be joined by abby alderman, and edith young. i'm emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg. ♪ mom, hurry! our show's gonna start soon! i promised i wouldn't miss the show and mommy always keeps her promises. oh, no! seriously? hmm! it's not the same if she's not h

lisa: gensler has been vocal about the need to do so and be more aggressive going forward.re has been a feeling to not want to stifle innovation at a time when the technological advancements of the united states have driven a lot of the growth. professor, there is a theory that when you pull the tide back at a certain point, there is a lot of malfeasance, there a lot of very frothy spots that would get knocked out. if the fed cannot allow that to happen because that would torpedo in economy that has few tools left to accurately prop up. you agree the federal reserve will be more involved and activist just by virtue of potential consequences if they are not? ken: you're going beyond crypto. lisa: i am. ken: i do not know if it makes them more activists or last. i think in the immediate future, the difficulty for the fed is they might need to raise interest rates cyclically quite a bit. frankly i think the 300 basis point drop in real interest rates that has happened since 2007, i think part of that is trend, maybe one third of it or 16 the bid is trend, and some of it is not

we do see gary gensler trying to get on it, but there is such a push against it. -- why stymie innovation? tom: maybe this is a precursor to 2022. bitcoin loses the bid a little bit, off 0.9%. claims in america. mike will show up. this is bloomberg. ♪ >> the market is welcoming the fed to move. >> the bond market is a lot smarter than the equity market. >> the equity market is a much better value. >> we think there's more room to go on multiple contraction. >> this has not been a valuation expansion story. it has been in earnings led market. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. lisa: central banks turn hawkish, or try to, but markets are not getting the memo. good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance" on bloomberg radio and

made up in a conversation with security and exchange commission jake clinton current sec chair gary gensler>> as soon as they do for most people that people have the best intentions. >> if i ask you you say best intention you say people would have incentives to avoid the anti-money laundering. bitcoin has spent years for men somewhere around the globe. liz: i like that. getting a little testy. how does the crypto world look at this. >> by producer. liz: can you do that again. >> is a catfight between the sec chair. i don't like you. listen another thing i want to point out you like the kiss of death sometimes. liz: he's trying to put it on me. they both basically spoke at this concert and spoke about the level of illegality in the crypto business and was interested, you would expect a republican to take your innocent until proven guilty approach. kinsler is the current sec chief. this is where you have to be scared if you're in the industry. when clinton was framing the industry, bad players but there's also a wait-and-see attitude. he said no this stuff is bitcoin and crypto being used as

to do something for broad but that's the space to watch >> yeah, there has been criticism of gary genslerurities is unclear they said that could use an update he has been called out by name brian books, the former head of the s.e.c. is getting the most air time here. a former reg will iter he has a good rapport with so of the lawmakers. he has been answering the most questions here his point, stable coins are a good thing for the u.s. dollar but he has gotten a lot of the questioning today. >> hopefully we will talk to circle next hour thank you kate. >>> there is a dispute between coinbase and a group of its customers. there are millions of dollars at stake. eamon javers has the details. >> the coinbase customers here are circulating a petition, organizing on facebook, demanding that the crypto exchange make them whole in the wake of an incident that happened in november the investors put money into a gyen which began trading on coinbase's exchange on november 10th it is supposed to stay at a price fixed to the japanese yen. somehow it was untethered causing a sharp spike and a sharp dec

gary gensler -- having him is a great move i think obviously with the council chaired by secretary of room to be able to have the conversation that are really hopefully going to provide a road map for all of these issues what you just mentioned is one issue. there are many other issues, many other players, the s.e.c., et cetera. >> let me put you on the hot seat and ask you if you were in a regulatory position -- it doesn't exist right now. if you were, and you looked at a situation where the crypto exchange locked customers out ever their accounts and said you have to sustain those losses until we figure out what to do here, how would you handle it? >> we have to think about it from a policy perspective that's going the last for years to come, and obviously evolve for years to come. flexibility and optionality is going to be key. a lot of the new investors, the next generation of investors who kind of want the autonomy, the independence to make their own decisions all has to be taken into account i don't think there is a one size fits all. there is not going to be just one incident t

. >> gary gensler, your buddy, they can choose not to comment. my best on this week's edition of my everyone talks to liz podcast, and before you turn the channel, you have got to hear it. he's revealing his christmas day dinner recipes -- >> by the way, we didn't get to answerer mc. it's up 20%. >> we already did it, without you. [laughter] liz: we're coming right back. don't go away. trelegy for copd. [coughing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ no once-daily copd medicine... has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take tre

. >> it is a damn shame i can't get gary gensler on the show.ed, you know him, let down how much stock he sold? i told you for the record, i am. he intimated he would sell shares but not as much as he sold so far. >> i get that because on the higher level, of course media who doesn't like what is going on are going to use that as some ammo. on a personal level though i guess i was raised to not watch another man's pockets. we known this since 2/2, he is 67. there is estate planning. future investing involves 3 million shares for him. at a personal level i don't care much but the way a lot of media will distort it i find it pretty frustrating. >> matt, i wish we had more time. i appreciate you coming on and we're going to talk again real soon. hopefully i will be on twitter, we can tweet at each other as well. good talk, my friend. i appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: folks, skipping the crowds, shopping online we already talked about that, here is the thing, the scammers are waiting for you. though want to steal your money. they have been doi

we've got to predict about regulation gary gensler has given a lot of bluster about regulation, but weyet. not that you want to see it, but what do you predict for 2021, 2022? we didn't get to see a spot bitcoin etf but we did get approval for bitcoin futures etfs. what do you think is going to happen with regulation and how it'll all gel together? >> yeah, i tend to think what we're watching happen here is the builders of the industry, the investors of the industry, they're trying to figure it out and so are regulator as well. part of this this is, it's moving so quickly, it's one big channel. and the second is agreement in terms of what the regulation should be. i generally think we've got a lot of good faith actors, people trying to find out what the right solutions are. they want to encourage innovation, they want to encourage economic prosper perty in the u.s., but they also want to put some guidelines in place. i think the key piece in bitcoin, fors clearly been stated it is not a security. now what happens to everything else, we'll see in 2022, but i do think geelt some solution

gary gensler, when he was an m. i.t. professor he said it, point blank.e that ethererum, there was a case to be made that ethererum was not compliant. he said that on the record. he does not comment on that now, we've asked him to comment on that and this whole subject, the sec declined comment on this story, liz, but clearly, this is a story that's definitely being talked about inside the crypto industry, as his core testimony gets passed around. by the way the court testimony occurred a couple months ago but it's now, you see it on social media and that's kind of how i got my hands-on it, and the sec lawyer says point blank. sec has made no official ruling on the compliance of ethererum's ether or the bitcoin cryptocurrency, liz, back to you liz: all i will say is we have the bit fury ceo the other day. he also testified before that house panel and he said, i asked him. is xrp a security or is it a currency and he said looks like a currency to me. charlie: you know, one of the reasons why this came up, whether ethererum and bitcoin is actually there's a

. >> let's go to nancy gensler at marketplace. >> hi, chair powell. thanks for the questions. actually switch to -- behind the curve getting inflation under control-- >> so i would say this, i actually think we are well-positioned to deal with what's coming. with the range of outcomes that can come. i do. and i think, if you look at how we got here, i do think we've been-- we've been adapting to the incoming data, really, all the way along and you know, noticing and calling out that the effects and persistence of inflation, of bottle necks and labor shortages and things hike that. so, we've been calling out the fact that these have become longer and more persistent and larger and now we're in the position we're having our taper well, by march in two meetings and we will be in a position to raise interest rates as and when we think it's appropriate and we will, to the extent that that's appropriate. at the same time we are going to see a few more months of data. i don't actually think that we're out of position now. i think this is an important move for us to make and i think t

many criticized securities and exchange commission chairman gary gensler who calls the industry the wild of digital chairman matthew rozak. thank you very much for being here. >> thanks for having me back. maria: tell me about the road ahead and how you see the economy changing as a result of digital assets and the block chain. >> well, it was great to see the crypto avengers assemble in d.c. and this was really important milestone for both crypto and members of congress, seeing companies like fdx, circle, coin base and brian brooks, the former head of the occ, testify was really important. i think the education in this space needs to continue to intensify as this market grows. i testified about five years ago when bitcoin was $400. now it's close to 50,000. so the market has shifted dramatically from about 8 billion five years ago to two and-a-half trillion. this is a real industry with real growth and the regulation represents the biggest opportunity and the biggest threat to crypto. and having thoughtful regulation and having guardrails is important but -- it also could put us back if

that is according to gary gensler, in a statement who is basically now fulfilling their obligation passedss to come up with these new rules. how are they going to implement? what are the criteria for companies that could be potentially put on a list pretty listing? -- for delisting? if these companies do not comply, they could potentially be delisted. you're seeing what eric kinser is saying, all companies need to be subject to inspection by a public oversight board. change the page, this is the one million-dollar quote that singles out china and hong kong as not complying with that requirement, which is now going to be mandated by law. >> with respect to michael leverett -- we spoke to michael leverett, he said you look at the u.s. moving to deal list chinese firms, china tried to close loopholes. it is a matter of who gets there first. the end goal seems to be the same. is the end results just further bifurcation of these superpowers? >> the headwinds are definitely against these companies listed in the united states, whether from rigor to look toward -- whether from rail or tory pressu

obviously, australia's regulators you have to watch what you must have to keep a close eye on gary genslers. the sec is really clamping down on crypto companies. what do you see playing out over 2022 in terms of u.s. regulation? >> u.s. regulars that deborah barbara -- being focused on australia a. what i have seen at the highest level is a genuine environment to accept crypto as a means of payment. a genuine excitement around the innovation that blockchain brings. you're looking at some of the most high-profile, important companies in the u.s. that are public companies, that are crypto. you are not seeing that in other exchanges globally. i am seeing the u.s. continuing to be a leader. they will make sure consumer protections are in place. there is a lot of interest around the etf. in one to two years, spot etf will be approved. i think that is a better solution for customers. right now, you're certainly going to get a lot better deal as an investor buying bitcoin on an exchange rather than futures etf. the structure's set up. i expect to see positive development in the u.s.. >> talk to m

companies that do not comply with accounting and transparency rules that the sec has, and even gary gensler had mentioned chinese and hong kong companies in particular are the ones that have not been complying, so you kind of connect the dots and ask if this will lead to an avalanche of chinese delisting in the united states -- well, lo and behold, we just got news that didi is filing for delisting in the united states while simultaneously also going to apply for a listing here in hong kong. this is what some would say is going to be the trend. if regulators in china do not want these data rich and data sensitive companies listing in the united states and if the sec does not want those companies who do not open up their books to stay listed in the united states, where did they go? potentially back here to hong kong. i was just going to give you instant reaction from bloomberg intelligence, the power of the bloomberg, as you guys know. just a couple of days ago, bloomberg intelligence was talking about didi's long-term growth outlook clouded by the crackdown on data. they really said this is

would come after us your friend gary gensler would not be happy with you. >> he uses a lot of new mediall right. you ready to talk to pisani? i think i am. >> have you mentioned at&t >> oh, my god, down another 1.8% it's a moves target. >> because they killed off mr. big? >> i don't know. >> that's horrible fox is down 2.5% you think that's because chris wallace is leaving >> no. >> discovery is down, both continue to go pressure that the overall value of that potential deal, when discovery actually ends up merging with the warner properties that are party of at&t they have to figure out whether it will be a split or -- you know, how they structure it they get to tell us. >> it's not for real >> it could be, by the way, completely april of the cupping year. >>> over to bob pisani for more on the market as well. bob? >> good morning, david we spent friday, big rally into the close, very hesitant here, part of it because we're still dependent on the omicron headlines. boris johnson did help that. that took the futures off their highs. you see how defensive everything is today tech is up,

sec chairman gensler has anticipated on multiple occasions that, and i quote, the test to determine whether a crypto asset is a security is clear. however, commissioners noted that they believe there to be an obvious lack of clarity for market participants around the application of securities laws to digital assets and their trading. so lack of clarity is clear through the numerous requests that the sec receives for these no-action letters. in your view, is additional guidance defining clear rules of the road for investors or and market participants needed at this time? >> thank you for the question. we believe this is a very important area of focus for the sec and this committee. we do agree the laws are clear. however, existing laws, regulation and legal precedent make it clear that blockchain tokens are not securities. so we believe the law clearly shows they're one of two things, either a new form of digital property or a new way to record ownership as brian book spoke earlier about. we do believe that clarity is need because these are new assets, it's a new way of transacting with thes

where they are and i'm going to leave it at that >> can we talk more broadly just about crypto gary genslerants to make sure that getting into the weeds on it and finding to set some rules about this he taught a course on it at m.i.t., so he's not lumbering around blindly on this are we going to see much greater restrictions or at least much greater rules of the road when it comes to crypto >> becky, crypto -- gosh, it's a wide variety of products and a wide variety of functions, touches on many areas. capital raising and the trading of securities is one area where the s.e.c. touched i have long believed that the rules in that area are fairly clear and longstanding if you are raising capital publicly for a project, you generally have to register those sales, that capital raising with the s.e.c. if you're trading securities, it needs to be done on a regulated venue. there are many other aspects of crypto whether it's stablecoins that are not securities or other tokenized elements of our society that will be outside of the s.e.c.'s purview this is a whole of government approach let me say thi