there are a lot of statues of thomas jefferson. we are not erasing thomas jefferson from our history. >> who gets to decide who is honored and where is our next topic. when you appear on history as it happens in july around the fourth anniversary of the unite the right rally, the confederate stages did come down -- in august, confederate stages came down in charlottesville, general lee and jackson. our discussion was really about why certain narratives gain ascendancy and why we today believe certain narratives or a certain version of history instead of say a different or more complete or revised version, the issue of the confederate statues is arguably the best one because as a yankee myself who flew down to washington, i am a yankee i guess, moved down to washington dc a decade ago and noticed over the river in alexandria there still streets and roads named after confederates and i was puzzled why that would be the case and in charlottesville, statues were not put up right after the civil war to honor battlefield heroes, they wer

no, you shouldn't do this. >> and i mentioned before in new york city today, thomas jefferson's statue is coming down from the city council chambers. let's move on to the issue -- >> before we start worrying about thomas jefferson, i am a great admirer of jefferson's ideas, and so are many americans on all places in the spectrum. they're taking the statue of jefferson down. we can argue about whether or not it should be taken down or not -- there are a lot of statues of thomas jefferson. we are not erasing thomas jefferson from our history. >> there is an issue of who gets honored and where. that's our next topic because when you appeared on history in a podcast. it was around the fourth of july. the confederate statues did come down. actually, it was in august. the confederate statues came down, and jackson, and this is why we today believe certain narratives or believe a certain version of history instead of saying a different or more complete or revised version. i think the issue of the confederate statues is arguably the best one. because as a yankee myself, i moved down from washi

tyler once had dinner with thomas jefferson not long after he graduated from william and mary. jefferson impressed upon him that a successful politician, particularly an virginia needed to establish himself in the legal profession. in fact a legal career jefferson said to the young man was a virtual prerequisite to a political career. so, much like there's no doubt he would attend william and mary became pretty apparent is going to pursue a legal career. shortly after he graduated his father and another tyler relative took him on his legal apprentice. a little bit later when judge tyler was elected governor of virginia could no longer supervise his son's legal studies, edmund randolph stepped in. randolph had been attorney general under george washington and really presented young tyler with a challenging way to approach the law. tyler passed the bar in 1809 at the age of 19. now this is interesting because in virginia the law at the time they do had to be at least 21 years of age to pass the bar exam. to even sit for the bar exam. but apparently the examiner could not ask tyler

there is a lot of statues of thomas jefferson. >> yes, there is. >> we are not erasing thomas jefferson from our history. >> there is an issue. who gets to decide who is honored and where. that's our next topic because when you appeared on history as it happens podcast fairly recently, it was actually in july, around the fourth anniversary. "unite the right" rally, the confederate statues did come down. actually, it was in august. i take that back. the confederate statues came down in charlottesville, generals lee and jackson, and our discussion was really about why certain narratives gain ascendancy and we why today believe certain narratives or believe a certain version of history instead of, say, a different or more complete or revised version. and i think the issue of the confederate statues is, arguably, the best one because, as a yankee myself, i moved down from washington. i'm a mets fan, but i am from the north. i am a yankee, i guess. moved down to washington, d.c., about a decade ago and i noticed over the river in alexandria there were still streets and roads named after conf

. >> mike, had he had the courage to do what thomas jefferson did but a minor version -- you know thomason, he kept georgia. you know that? he didn't send it back there was a dispute. "hear ye, hear ye, the great state of georgia is unable to properly calculate its votes." thomas jefferson was sitting where mike was right where mike - you know what he said? "hear ye, hear ye, we will keep the votes of the great state of georgia. he didn't send it back to the legis -- no. all i wanted, and a lot of people wanted, mike to do is send that back >> seth: i'll say this he's the only guy i've ever seen do an episode of "drunk history" stone-cold sober [ laughter and applause i mean, it's like watching an amnesia patient wander up onstage during a performance of "hamilton. ♪ >> secretary jefferson, you have the floor, sir >> hear ye, hear ye. [ laughter and applause >> seth: it's frankly hilarious that the only thing trump seems to know about american history is that people used to say "hear ye, hear ye. [ laughter ] he probably only knows that from one of those commercials where the owner of a

students. >> i'm sure it is and i'm sure a lot of you know a heck of a lot more than i do of thomas jefferson being at the university. i don't think it's just the influence madison had on jefferson but the influence jefferson had on madison. it was a great collaboration but also a great friendship and i think just to expand on your question, it wasn't just during his presidency you see it played out. it's really played out from their first meeting in 1776 until jefferson's death in '86, encompasses 1,250 letters exchanged between the two men but, you know, they were so different, both in body and in personality, and temperament. jefferson, 6'2", madison was 5'4", jefferson, larger than life personality and madison shy and timid, but yet they worked together beautifully. i think madison needed jefferson's large personality and idealism and jefferson needed madison's exacting mind and practical nature and i think you see it played out in things as small as how they approach the alien sedition act or how he was going to deal with john adams when jefferson comes in as vice-president in 1797 and j

and little mouse and played in thomas jefferson's presidency? she says it's very interesting. >> am sure it is. there's time at the university. the influence of medicine had on jefferson but the influence jefferson had on madison it was a great collaboration. it was also a great friendship. just to expand on your question, it was not just during his presidency feels put out. it's really from the first meeting in 1776. it is a 50 year friendship that encompasses 1250 letters that are exchanged between the two men. they were so different in both in body and personality and temperament. jefferson was 6-foot 2 inches 6-foot 3 inches madison was 5-foot 4 inches per jefferson was a larger-than-life personality, medicine was very shy and timid. but they work together beautifully. i think madison needed jefferson's large personality and jefferson needed madison's exacting mind impractical nature. think how they approached the actor how they approached how who's going to deal jon adams medicine is so calculating such great personal friends they saved eac

. >> again, thomas and jefferson statue was taken down in new york city, in the city council chambers. >> he said it is an unbroken line. i think it would be hard to argue as including an unbroken line. those are two different things. it's a subtle difference. >> there's more to our history than race. >> there is more to our history than race, but, you cannot understand our history, without understanding that unbroken mine. look, one of the major critics of the 16 19 project, going back to not just sean, is james oakes, at the university. >> another great historian. >> you will know the name of his first book us? >> his first book? i don't. >> his first book is called the ruling race. okay? so, it is not as if he doesn't think that this has not been some kind of continuous threat in american history. this difference between saying white supremacy is in the essence of american history, as opposed to white supremacy, and the president, it has been continuous, and has continued to influence our institutions, and our culture. these are two different kinds of things. though lincoln was a r

and we think that you've obviously, been to monticello and the work that you have done with thomas jefferson and the original work on the controversy of the hemmings jeffersons and the origin stories if you will. in your new book juneteenth is doing a different working operating it in a different with the sort of may be a different literary assents in your previous work and how did you sort of move from more maybe traditional historical text into something that was more personal than anything i've ever read. >> blows good change for me in terms of my public writing and when i was growing up, i was something i wanted to be a writer and the kind of writing that i am doing on juneteenth is the kind of writing that i thought that i would be doing it that's i didn't think i would go up to be a historian when i was a teenager and write about enslaved families but i was interested in reading about those kinds of things. but i thought that my writing would be somewhere else. a lot of the desire to talk about a place that is very much and is now, two things happened with these books that i didn't exp

and little mouse and played in thomas jefferson's presidency? she says it's very interesting. >> am sure it is. there's time at the university. the influence of medicine had on jefferson but the influence jefferson had on madison it was a great collaboration. it was also a great friendship. just to expand on your question, it was not just during his presidency feels put out. it's really from the first meeting in 1776. it is a 50 year friendship that encompasses 1250 letters that are exchanged between the two men. they were so different in both in body and personality and temperament. jefferson was 6-foot 2 inches 6-foot 3 inches madison was 5-foot 4 inches per jefferson was a larger-than-life personality, medicine was very shy and timid. but they work together beautifully. i think madison needed jefferson's large personality and jefferson needed madison's exacting mind impractical nature. think how they approached the actor how they approached how who's going to deal jon adams medicine is so calculating such great personal friends they saved eac

also from the aspect of george washington and thomas jefferson, you can't just go into this area, you have to stay in this light area. and it also happened in this way. so you can actually understand why the british did that. the british had just finished the nine year war that we called the seven-year war against the french and the spanish and almost alle that you see here ws part of the exception. and of courseou the british has one and that includes doubling up on what is going on. british officials and parliament understand and that includes increasing the possibility of going to war with the native americans in there something else to take your hat off to you and that is also to enforce the proclamation. that includes keeping indian relations intact and the british government made a pivotal decision in december 1762. andbe that was that the war is over, that there was a time of treaty. that the war was over in december 1762. which is basically they have fought the war and ready to w return home. but the british government decided to leave 10,000 soldiers in north america as basic

i will discuss certainly why some people hated thomas jefferson. i want to begin by saying that in recent years when i have been asked what moments in american history share echoes with our polarized present, one of my responses is the late 1790s. as an early americanist, i'm aware the late 1790s doesn't have some of the pizzazz potential for polarization as, say, the 1850s and the civil war, but the intense polarization of federalists and republicans, the extreme othering each of the other as un-american, the pre predictions on both sides of chaos, tyranny and anarchy, the bursts of violence that president john adams later described as terrorism, using actually that word, the echoes of polarization and hate between past and present clearly are very real. so what can this kind of historical hate offer in the way of insights? part of what i'm going to be discussing in my brief comments this afternoon is there are different flavors of presidential hate, some more intense than others, some more personal than others, some more prone to weaponization th

the people in power, john hancock, john adams, thomas jefferson, they were pretty satisfied with their role in the british empire as of the year 1762. and it's these guys, the house of commons, in their old meeting chamber here, who were dissatisfied and said, we want to make changes. and so i wanted to put that slide in the list to frame the whole discussion that we're really talking about the british grievances against the colonies and things they wanted to change and parliament did try to change and the colonists' resentment of the changes that would lead to revolution. brian, if you'll go straight to the next one, the next slide is the image that nicole was talking about, which is -- this is just north america, east of the mississippi river. but as nicole pointed out, and i did, too, most of thatatory territory, even east of the mississippi, is still occupied by native americans at this time. i based this map primarily on an atlas done by a scholar named helen hornbeck tanner, but she was mostly focused on the midwest. so many people helped me fill in other native nations. and one

kennedy: thomas jefferson, joe biden, theodore roosevelt or heloise? >> thomas jefferson, tj. rights. you now have four can either tie and it's like a aaa. or press your luck. >> i like that. i've got nothing to lose. let's press my luck. kennedy: which of these presidents was married to a descendent of pocahontas? woodrow wilson, rutherford b haze, funeral roosevelt or george w. bush? >> elizabeth warren. kennedy: that is not -- [laughter] woodrow wilson? kennedy: wilson it is. oh my god. you and i are going on a date. you got six-point and if you are date. this is exciting. [laughter] >> no. let me tag along. [laughter] kennedy: i am so excited. i want to thank you all. this is the best night of my life. thank you. [laughter] >> thanks, kennedy b2 coming up, senate republicans threatening to shut down the government, biden's vaccine mandate. is it enough to stop the endless river of weights? brian in the flesh next. ♪♪ ♪♪ kennedy: a little bonus. congress trying to the wild west as lawmakers are knee-deep in a shutdown showdown. midnight tomorrow, the deadline in the house c

and then i worked with him and asked him if i could write my dissertation on thomas jefferson. you have toe live life little bit more. and then i tried to do that for another 25 years. but i guess coming out of the lehman mary so to have some kind of influence. because i have written biographies of three presidents of washington and adams and jefferson. and then to identify as a presidential historian i don't think of myself asf a presidential a historian. and then to let me write it the way i am wanting to and then teaching at a liberal arts college allowed me and is aimed at a general audience versus professional historians. host: let's go to the key points in your book and then ten minutes you can have your questions submitted in the chat room and i will read them and we get to the section. what you mean by that cause? why do youro call it the cause? what did the phrase come from? >> that's a good question in the early stages for the war for american independence the british call that the american rebellion starting in 1774 and 75 started to talk about the common cause which

washington decides, brings in hamilton but reaches out to thomas jefferson who had a great relationship with during the revolution but he recognizes his obvious gifts. in typical fashion jefferson takes a wild to respond. it is not until march, almost a year after washington's inauguration that he becomes part of washington's cabinet and from the start, he's very skeptical of what is going on. he distrusts this thing called the presidency with all that power. hamilton is looking through the british model when it comes to creating an economic basis for the country. washington and hamilton after fighting the revolution, if they lost, it wasn't what was happening on the battlefield but because of british economic might, because they had a national bank, had the ability to borrow, they could outlast anyone economically, that gave them superiority. it is the strong economic basis for the country. after his time in france, jefferson seduced by the french revolutionary fervor. that is not what a republic is about. we don't want to be like england, we want to be passionate and idealistic. we kn

an incredibly famous guy -- thomas jefferson. >> that incredibly famous dude. yeah. july 4, 1826, on the 50th anniversary of the declaration of independence, john adams and thomas jefferson, old arch rivals, second and third president, both die. and you have all of these speeches celebrating, of course, the revolution, the declaration, right. so commemoration through the 1820s is a big, booming business when there are speeches and memorials and commemorations all the time. this is again the building of a public history, right. memorials and monuments are super important. it's how people makes their identity and remembers it in all of these civic rituals, in all of these ways of sort of building a cultural identity. well, one of those commemorations happens in 1820 because, of course, it's 200 years since the landing of the pilgrims. so one thing to keep in mind is up until 1820, the pilgrims were celebrated, but mostly in new england. that is, if you're from charleston, you're like the pilgrims who? like, why -- why is this important to me, right. and by 18 -- in 182

washington -- so washington decides, you know, he brings in hamilton and but he also reaches out to thomas jefferson who he had a prickly relationship with during the revolution but he recognized obvious gifts and, you know, typical fashion jefferson takes a while to respond from france. it's not -- it's not until march, almost a year after inauguration that he becomes part of washington's cabinet and from the start he's very skeptical of what's going on. he distressed this thing called presidency with all that power, for him, you know, hamilton is looking to the british model when it comes to creating economic basis because hamilton knew after fighting revolution that if they lost it wasn't because of the -- what was happening in the battlefield but british economic might that they could -- they had a national bank because they had the ability to borrow, they could outlast anyone economically and that would have ultimately given superiority and that's what washington wanted. after time in france, jefferson is seduced by the french revolutionary fervor. he comes from the opposite side. that's not wh

toward american independence took place and graduates of , william mary include james monroe and thomas jefferson and george washington got his first official job through william mary as a he was licensed as a surveyor and and was chancellor of the college, for that matter, right after independence. so william and mary and and williamsburg there's an aura of , american history that that we began there, and so just walking the walks that those founders walked and having that experience really was inspirational. and then i was i was a freshman in college when president kenny -- president kennedy made his inaugural speech and and said ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. and actually one of my regrets over 50 years of serving those eight presidents -- actually were only two that lauded public service as an admirable thing to do and and encouraged young people to go into public service and president kennedy was one and the other was george h.w bush, our 41st president. but kennedy really inspired me and between between his inspiration the , atmosphere in will

a few days ago new york city council getting thomas jefferson crated up through a back door because thomas jefferson apparently doesn't represent our contemporary values, this is rubbish. people are being told to hate their founders, to hate the foundations of this country. they are being indoctrinated into it. there is no reason why they can't be taught out of it. taught not that jefferson is somebody you have got to hold out haul out the back door on a crate somebody who is one of the most extraordinary men who ever lived and who this country was exceptionally lucky to have at its founding. that's what people need to do. they need to be retaught the american story. retaught the true story of these figures they only otherwise hear about when the statues are being build down. teach them about lincoln and great men and women who have made this country what it is. >> pete: amen. douglas murray. you give me pa little bit of hope. thank you very much. appreciate your time. and thank you for indulging me. >> pete: coming up, alec baldwin rewrites history. he says he didn't pull the trigger. don

there is a reason i have come to collect on a promissory note written by thomas jefferson but i see theevolution as a black rights in the end of slavery, not the other way around. >> his newest book is the cause of the american revolution and its discontent 1773 -- 1783 he has been our guest on this calls in program for the national book festival. thankk you professor ellis for your time for. >> thanks for having me. >> book tv from the national book festival continues about half an hour or going going to have another call and opportunity. first you're going to hear from two authors talking about the opioidg epidemic. and after that one of the authors fight against the drug companies talking about the opioid epidemic will be joining us book tv coverage of the national book festival. >> new mobile video app from c-span, c-span now download today. >> we can't from c-span2 intellectual feast every saturday and on sundays @booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. state funding for cspan2 comes from these and more including cox. >> cox is committed to providing eligible

of my mentors there worked a lot with him and i asked him if i could write my dissertation on thomas jeffersonou are not old enough to write a biography. so, i did try to do that for another 25 years. that is where i caught it. i must have had some kind of influence there. i have stuck with the lady because i've written biographies , washington, adams, jefferson, i sometimes get identified as a presidential historian. i don't think of myself as a presidential historian. i've written about the first three presidents. at any rate, ed morgan let me write the way i wanted to. i think teaching at a liberal arts college allowed me to aim at a general audience rather than a group of professional historians. >> there you go. >> lets go through some of the key points on your book. asking questions for another 20 minutes or so. then about 10 minutes or so where you can have your question submitted. submitted them in the chat room and i will read them subsequently when we get to that section. what do you mean by the cause? where did that phrase come from? >> good question. in the early stages of the war

that it has a classical education which is exactly but not if teachers that john adams had her thomas jeffersonts through george washington or harold green and only can sixth grade education but to read the classics and in translations classical education, was with the understood and founding time. and so the red arctic hundred parts of history and classical history of virtue, honesty, character, and character is destiny they said, and if you want to study that in a model, look at the story of harry truman.de common sense is not common as well as observed and who knows how many before but truman understood that predict and had value of common sense. >> truman's first real test of the common sense, character and leadership was in world war i and find out what happened after truman home, they wouldn't be left out of the greatest is remaking adverse the world is ever seen of all to live for this information about future oninstallments and other interesting programs by setting up our e-mail letter at truman library institute .org. >> looking history tv is looking back throughout the years of the na

stepped onto the lincoln memorial steps said comp to collect on a promissory note written by thomas jefferson i see the revolution as a war of black rights that ended slavery, not the other way around. >> joseph ellis, the cause for american revolution and its discontent 1773 -- 83. he's been our guest on this program for the national book festival. thank you for your time. >> thanks for having me. >> book tvs coverage of the national book coverage continues with about a half an hour, we will have another call in opportunity but first you will hear from two authors talking about the opioid epidemic and after that, one of the authors, the country fight against the drug companies talking about the opioidid epidemic will be joinig us. ♪♪ >> c-span in your pocket. download c-span now today. ♪♪ >> book tv every sunday on c-span2 features authors discussing the latest nonfiction books. civil war historian alan joining us live to talk about intellectual history of the united states. the great emancipator, gettysburg and latest robert e lee from confederate general of the civil war. former georgia re

like, is washington an intellect compared to alexander hamilton or thomas jefferson? no. but that does not make george washington, like, a tree stump, when it comes to his intellectual capacity. i think the same is true for lafayette. when you talk about the people who were running around late 18th century france, which is the -- this is the enlightenment. these are some world historical geniuses that are operating on a very high intellectual level. and i think it is true that lafayette is not, you know, hanging up there with condor, say. or with -- well, maribel was kind of a bleep artist. maybe not near rebel. i don't think that means then that he was then a dunce or that he constantly made mistakes. or that he was in over his head i push back against the notion that lafayette was in over his head. that's something that people say about him. was he in a situation was where anyone would be in over his head? yes, he was trying to accomplish something -- and we will move over to the french revolution now -- but he is trying to maintain order in revolutionary paris in 1789,

my mentors there woodward, horse along with him i asked him if i can write my dissertation on thomas jefferson and he said, no, you are not old enough to write a biography, you have to have lived life more and so i didn't try to do that for another 25 years and that is where i cough it i guess coming out of williamsburg, i must've had some information fair and a stuck with the late 18th century. and washington, adams and jefferson, the three presence and sometimes i can identify as a presidential historian and don't think of myself as a presidential historian, i'm a historian of healing and everything about it the 31st presidents. at any rate, he let me write the way that i wanted to and i think teaching in the liberal arts college allowed me to work on this in a way that aimed at a general spread instead of just the other group of professional historians. that's probably too long of an answer but there you go david pretty. >> husband through some of the key points in your book and i remind everybody that i'll be asking questions for another 20 minutes or so and then about tenants or so where

he removed a statue of thomas jefferson from city hall where it stood for 187 years.s no wonder hundreds of thousands of new yorkers fled the cityine before covid. the population dropped by over 200,000 from 2017 to 2018. the largest drop since the '70s. over 300,000 fled between march and october this year alone. former president trump summed it up best. bill de blasio is a joke. >> mayor bill de blasio taking questions for the first time as a presidential candidate taking jabs from donald trump calling de blasio the worst mayor in the u.s. if you like high taxes and crime, he's your man. the voters who know him best in new york city. a quinnipiac poll showed 76% say he should not run. >> sean: he cost taxpayer $320,000 for his security detail. he hasn't paid that back. in addition to the 850-million dollars taxpayers paid for his wife. we will be happy to see bill de blasio leave. first we would be remiss if we did not look back at his misses. first the death of the groundhog. >> he dropped it and it was found deceased on february 9th. >> sean: he tweeted and delete

called woodward i worked along with him and i asked him if i could write my dissertation on thomas jefferson . he said you're not old enough to write a biography. you have to have lived life before and so i didn't try to do that for another 25 years. that's where i caught in my guest at william and mary in williamsburg unless it had some kind of influence there but i'm stuck with the late 18th century . because i've written biographies of three presidents, washington, adams and jefferson come times i get identified as a presidential historian. i don't think of myself as a presidential historian. i have written about the three first presidents but at any rate, and morgan let me write the way i wanted to and i think teaching at a liberal arts college allowed me to work on my own story in a way that aimed at the general audience rather than just the other group of professional historians. there you go. >> let's go to some of the key points in your book and i'll remind everybody i'll be asking questions for another 20 minutes or so and then there will be about 10 minutes or so where you can have

they comply with certain social standers, is it, this is separation of church and state which thomas jefferson warned about his letter. it wasn't about the churches influencing government rather as a warning about the government influencing the church too bad. they did not put that in the constitution. lots of discussion have a great group of people to give us a full picture. so let's get started. ah .

like is washington an intellect compared to, like, alexander hamilton or thomas jefferson? you know, no, but that doesn't make george washington like a tree stump when it comes to like his intellectual capacity and i think the same is true for lafayette. you know, when you talk about the people who were running around late 18th century france, which is like, you know, this is the enlightenment. these are some world historical geniuses that are operating at a very high intellectual level and, you know, i think it's true that lafayette is not, you know, hanging up there with condorse, well mirabo was kind of a bullshit artist so maybe not mirabo but i don't think that means he was a dunce or constantly made mistakes or in over his head. i push back against the notion that lafayette was in over his head which is something a lot of people say about him. was he in a situation where anybody would have been over their head? yeah, i think mostly that's what it is. like he was trying to accomplish something that as we move over to the french revolution now, he's trying to maintain o

so now i will discuss why certainly some people hated thomas jefferson. i want to begin by saying in recent years when i have been asked what moments in american history echoes this president want my responses is the late 17 nineties as an early american as i am aware the late 17 nineties does not have some of the pizzazz as the 18 fifties in the civil war but the intense polarization of federalist and republicans , the extreme of the ring as an american the press predictions on both sides of chaos and tyranny and anarchy with a burst violence as john adams later described as terrorism actually using that word, the echoes of polarization and hate between past and present are very real so what kind of historical feet offer in the way of insight? >> part of what i was discussing my brief comments some are more intense than others so i'm were more personal than others somewhere more prone to weaponization. there are different flavors of presidential hatred and i use that word because there is something sensory. i am curious to see how that does or doesn't ma