daniel hamilton is a senior node resident fellow, with the brookings institute is also a former deputy assistant secretary of state for european security affairs, and joe's been alive via zoom from washington. d. c. mr. hamilton, i could have you at the sun al jazeera, how just begin with the issue and the debate that's being had on both sides of the atlantic, about sanctions, the squeeze of the effect of sanctions, whether they're happening too fast or too slowly. well, they're ratcheting them up on a scale of $1.00 to $10.00. they're probably an 8, which means they're still considerable room to go. but the pain is there. and it's part of a messaging process to the russians about prosecuting the war and the signaling process to other countries like india or china that don't go there. don't try to evade the sanctions. or you'll be in touch with the poorest state and it will not be in your interest. and there is possibility of secondary sanctions. if they do so in the, to the european commission president a live on the land says that she intends to close you ports to russian vessels and

a new large scale bloody offensive from the dead bus, which i did not leave. lesson out from daniel hamilton, who's a senior nonresident fellow with the brookings institute and a former deputy assistant secretary of state for european security affairs. he explains what the sanctions on russia seek to do on its energy sector. it's part of a messaging process to the russians about prosecuting the war and the signaling process to other countries like india or china that don't go there. don't try to evade these sanctions. or you'll be in touch with the for state and it will not be in your interest. and there's possibility of secondary sanction. if they do so, actually the oil in ford found the united states has followed suit. but, but we are in the north america, we're in a different energy situation. it's the europeans that would have to pay the price plus japan. and they're trying to do different things. first of all, they made a very determined effort to win them off, off of energy, are dependent on russia over time. that's a, that's a dramatic change that will change the entire constellation