and andrew weissmann let's go first to you, as the trial tactician.tion is the justice department -- are the lawyers who have been working this case in the courtroom -- are they consulted with appeals experts at the justice department about what to do next? >> absolutely. there is no way i'm god's green earth that this is not happening at the justice department. from merrick garland to lisa monaco to the solicitor general, people who are steeped in appellate law are going to be weighing in on this. this decision. so, it is a tough one. i will give you my bottom line. i agree with professor tribe, which is something you always have to say. but here i actually do. but i would give one amendment, which is i would appeal the injunction. i would also appeal the part of the decision that said the special master will review documents for executive privilege. and that means, basically, all documents with classification markings. this is like a thief taking documents then saying, judge, i want them back. this is a complete farce. and to have somebody like laur

i have andrew weissmann, neal katyal, matt miller. i've got all the lawyers i need. >> the murders of legal. eagles >> how them take it apart, get right. to it >> have a great show. >> thank you, thank you. >> tonight, the trump lawyers have filed a reply to the justice department's opposition to a judge appointing a so-called special master to examine some of the government records seized by the fbi at donald trump's florida home. neal katyal, andrew weissmann, and matt miller will give us the expert analysis. the most important thing to keep in mind, the single most important thing to know about the trump lawyers filing tonight is that it does not say one word about something included in the justice department's filing last night. it could get some of the trump lawyers indicted for obstruction of justice. one of the very important pieces of evidence in the justice department's filing last night is a copy of an under oath affidavit written by one of the trump's lawyers, inside -- and signed by one of the other trump lawyers, swearing

i have andrew weissmann, neal katyal, matt miller. all the lawyers i need. >> we're gonna get right to it. >> have a great show. >> thank you alex. thank you. tonight the trump lawyers have filed a replied to the justice department's opposition to the judge appointing a so-called special master to examine some of the government records seized by the fbi at donald trump's florida home. neal katyal andrew weissmann, and matt miller will give us the air inside. the most important thing to keep in mind, the single most important thing to know about the trump lawyers filing tonight is that it does not say one word about something included in the justice department's filing last night. it could get some of the trump lawyers indicted for obstruction of justice. one of the very important pieces of evidence in the justice department's filing last night is a copy of an under oath affidavit written by one of the trump's lawyers, inside -- swearing under oath on that day that at that moment they were handing over to the fbi and a federal prosecut

, but andrew weissmann doesn't need my help because he was actually there. he used to work in that courthouse. he's gonna be with us leading off tonight, and so we have the guy in the room, the guy i want in the room for the sessions. but there's two tickets, i want the other ticket. -- >> outlined to you lawrence -- >> thank you, alex. >> they're in great hands, lawrence, have a good show. >> well today, donald trump and his judge sirica and he met him in brooklyn. that could mean donald trump isn't a legal fast-track to a very bad outcome to the fbi's search of his florida residence, where the fbi found hundreds of government documents and classified documents including some highly classified documents that the fbi found in donald trump's desk. in his desk! judge john sirica was name time man of the year in 1974 because of his handling of criminal cases involving republican president richard nixon. that was judge john's erica who ordered president nixon to hand over the audio tapes of the presidents discussions in the oval office. those tapes revealed rich

also with us andrew weissmann weissmann. mr.aw, that the attorney generals talk, about 60 3:12, how does it apply here, what are the standards that have to be met? >> 63, 12 is one of the two statutes that give the ag really remarkable powers when it comes to dealing with the business community. we've all heard over the years about the martin act. 60 3:12 is a law that allows the ag to prosecute people civilly who engage in a persistent, repeat it illegality. but it also has much broader import, like here, when you're in the fraud context. because fraud typically is a very demanding violation to prove. there is a whole laundry list of violations, a whole laundry list of elements that have to be met to prove fraud. on the other hand, to prevail under 63, 12, or what is called fraud, the ag need simply prove deceptive acts or concealment, that's it. there is no laundry list. so, it is, it is built towards providing a business community in new york that will show high integrity. and provide the ag with great powers and enforcing th

luckily, we have andrew weissmann, neil cattle, and bradley moss, right here, right now, who were scheduled to lead off our discussion, and now, we really have twice as much to discuss this we thought. >> we are all in good hands with that. i will be watching you on the television, and very interesting breaking news. >> thank you. >> the name of the case is, appropriately, donald j trump versus united states of america. that, really, is what this is. but, in that case, the united states of america turned the tables by filing a motion, asking, but really, demanding, that the judge in the case reverse her recent ruling. so, for at least the next week or so, or more, this case has become the united states of america versus judge aileen mercedes cannon, who stands, accused, in effect, in the justice department of committing judicious malpractice, in her last ruling in the case, in which he issued an order, requiring a so-called special master, to be named later, to review all evidence in the case, including classified documents. to identify which of these documents should be returned to donald

leading off our discussion tonight is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel, and former chief of the criminal division and the eastern district of new york. he's professor of practice at and what you liked law school and msnbc analysis. also a realignment, former u. s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general. and andrew weissmann, let me begin with you, where we are with judge dearie tonight and his special master handling of this case, it was an interesting sequence of revelations about what happened with trying to obtain a bender to digitize these records. in your experience with vendors like this, coming into criminal cases like this, what is your reaction to what we have learned about this tonight? >> so as you said, getting a vendor is usually a non issue. i think there is something we can take away from what is seems like a small potatoes kind of thing. i think what donald trump is doing is quiet quitting. he brought this case and he realize he is worth worse off from having brought this case. and that's because he's an 11th circuit decision now saying that

we will, in a moment, get andrew weissmann's expert reading of this pleading, along with attorney mark zaid attorney ordination. for the moment, i will point out only one's stunningly childish passage. on page 50, in the trump lawyers quote the law accurately, saying that the archivist of the united states shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the presidential records that president. and then, they think they have a winning point in the next line. when they say the law, quote, does not say that the archivist must assume custody and control of all materials the fall within the definition of the presidential records. so there are the trump lawyers, thinking that they have caught the wall rioters. thinking that they found the loophole. velazquez shiloh, doesn't say must. i'm sorry, but i must now invoke what they call, in the senate, a point of personal privilege, and that is, as someone who used to write law, i can tell you, that shell means must. those two words mean exactly the same thing in written law. laws are not written just by t

andrew weissmann, let me begin with you. i'm going to give each of you just an open mic to give us whatever you are thinking about what you have read tonight from this judge. >> well, lawrence, there is so much to choose from. i am certainly going to believe a lot on the table for neil and brad, because there are so many outrageous and stupid, frankly, pieces of this decision. it is remarkable because you never thought that something worse than her last decision, and this actually topped it. but let me focus on something that i thought was particularly important, and then also go to something that is positive. one of the things i thought was a to us was that she comes right out and says, at the end of her decision, that she is giving extra weight to trump because he was the president. she just comes right out and says it. if anyone wants to see the end of the rule of law, it is, read the decision. if john locke famously said, where law ends, tyranny begins, you read this decision and what she said and she is admitting that t

there are people -- i think andrew weissmann speculated if they decide to indict trump, they may wrap it all together if there's potential criminal liability in both cases. we're a long way from that. that grand jury remains a very dangerous thing for donald trump. >> andrew, can you combine all these cases? >> actually, the answer is, i don't think you can. in order to combine cases, you have to comply with rule 8 and rule 14 of the federal rules of criminal procedure. not to be a total legal nerd, what that means is that the crimes have to really relate to each other. i think that if you tried to combine the mar-a-lago crimes with the january 6 ones, i think that a judge would separate them into two separate cases absent the defendant agreeing that they could be charged together. i don't think they -- i know we are way ahead of ourselves. but i don't think they could at least properly without consent be brought all together in the same indictment. >> andrew, what about the argument that if merrick garland is going to go and indict a former president of the united states, especially

andrew weissmann, this was illuminating, thank you very much. when it came time for the department of justice to decide whether to lay a january six defendant named timothy -- of joe, one of the things that concern them, was -- nazi ideology are essential to dreams of a civil war, and they used these images to support that claim. the man is still in jail, but he has been turned to a maga celebrity thanks to a campaign event this weekend that featured donald trump himself. that story is next. that story is next. every search you make, every click you take, every move you make, every step you take, i'll be watching you. the internet doesn't have to be duckduckgo is a free all in one privacy app with a built in search engine, web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. duckduckgo: privacy, simplified. donald trump held his first rally this weekend since the fbi's extraordinary search of his home at mar-a-lago. he traveled to pennsylvania campaigning for republican senate

i'm going to go after andrew i andrew weissmann. going to demand a special master to review everything that andrew my serum did with the fbi. this president goes against everything i've ever faced up against anything when i've tried to get records, trying to find out information from the government and things like the freedom of information act, republication review. this would completely up and an entire generation of case law. there's no way the government can let it stand. they don't want lawyers and everybody else to use it to start peeling back all this classified information. >> there's also the fact that the government said, in its last filing, that it would appeal if the judge rules against them the way she has tonight. so that appeal could be coming as early as tomorrow. neal katyal, andrew weissmann, bradley moss, can't thank you enough, especially an important night like this, to break down this information for us. coming up, marco rubio is part of the senate intelligence committee and he's now defending donald trump's ill

intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, charles coleman, the former new york prosecutor and andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and senior member of the mueller probe. charles and andrew fortunately for us are both msnbc legal analysts. ken, let me start with you if i can. we're talking about two separate cases here so i want to start with the justice department's investigation and this appeals court decision. this as we discussed a short time ago, this was a total repudiation of what the trump appointed judge in florida had ruled in this case. >> total repudiation, peter. they said this judge abused her discretion in granting this relief to donald trump and didn't read the law right. it's really remarkable because all the things that andrew weissmann and other legal experts have been saying on our air in recent weeks about this have come to pass. these judges, two of whom were appointed by donald trump, essentially said what we all believed was the law, which is that the courts defer to the executive branch when it comes to national security and classified information. and when the

andrew weissmann, you may have heard me rehearsing my presentation to you. my law professor in this case. without alex wagner at the beginning. we will do this in an unusual way tonight. i will make my argument tonight as you were, and you will grade it and, the audience will go with you on this. it looks to me like this is pretty pointless. this thing. it extends the whole process by a couple of weeks which seems like no big deal. the whole process seems like no big deal now that the classified documents are out of the process and a criminal investigation that is ongoing. and i go back to the conversation that you and i had when i asked you might donald trump be able to use the fifth amendment as an answer to judge dearie's question, identify for me what you think the fbi planted at your home? you said it may be possible to use the fifth amendment there. the more i think about that, the more i think judge cannon may be right here in protecting future criminal defendant trump 's rights in this case and it might be a cleaner case that way especially if it eve

andrew weissmann, this was illuminating, thank you very much. when it came time for the department of justice to decide whether to lay a january six defendant named timothy -- of joe, one of the things that concern them, was -- nazi ideology are essential to dreams of a civil war, and they used these images to support that claim. the man is still in jail, but he has been turned to a maga celebrity thanks to a campaign event this weekend that featured donald trump himself. that story is next. that story is next time of the year ♪ get fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms. including nasal congestion. with powerful claritin-d. so you can breathe better. feel the clarity and make today the most wonderful time of the year. claritin - d. i think i changed my mind about these glasses. yeah, it happens. that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference. hepatitis c? don't just treat it. crush it with mavyret. conquer it with mavyret. cure it. wit

attorney-client privilege that would bar the government from reviewing or using them. >> joining us now is andrew weissmannor member of the special counsel investigation. andrew, i want to really drill down on this because i believe what doj is arguing is this nightmare scenario that judge aileen cannon forced it to stop its review of what damage has been done and the appeal of good idea in your view? >> yes. let me give you, having looked at these, there are actually two documents that have been filed and there's something call a protective appeal and they make a motion to judge cannon in the district court. so what they're doing is in the district court they tell the judge that they want to have her stay a part of her stay. if you remember, she ordered that there could not be a review of anything that was seized in the search warrant, whether it's classified material or unclassified material. they had to put a full stop to the criminal investigation using those documents. what judge, we need you to rethink a part of that decision. you may have really made an error when it came to anything that is classif

. >> tonight andrew weissmann at a stunning revelations from the snt why prosecutor fired by donald trump. then, what we are learning about newly unsealed portions of the mar-a-lago affidavit and the republicans unveiled their plan to abort plant that abortion nationwide. >> i thought of the night to introduce a bill. >> senator amy corker on the overwhelming backlash to lindsey graham's plan. >> give me a chance to vote on this bill. >> when all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. well, it was as bad as it looked, in fact it was even worse. had a lot of occasions to say that in the trump years of american life but this new example of donald trump's misconduct in office is about as clear as it gets. it comes directly from the former united states attorney for the southern district of new york, arguably the most powerful district in the entire country. for two and a half years that man you see there geoffrey berman served in that role as the head of that district during the trump administration. berman has written a new book out today in which he details se

let's bring in legal analyst andrew weissmann. >> andrew, you certainly know, i have been bellowing fore held accountable for his crimes, but i'm not ka tas stro fizing over this appointment because if it delays prosecution by a few weeks, i think the justice department will figure out a way to work itself around that. also let them litigate the executive privilege. the supreme court may have to rule on that. other than those two issues what is the tragedy of the special master being appointed? >> let me see if i can convince you. you mentioned equal justice. u m. donald trump should not be treated better or worse than anybody else under investigation. what judge did here is so out of the norm, her discussion of the facts and her tettering of this to the law, were no resemblance to what happens every single day in federal and state investigations. no one else would be treated this way. and what's the harm other than there's opening the door to every defendant is now going to ask for this, which is nobody wants to have a fast investigation. everyone is going to want to delay an investiga

. >> andrew weissmann, i got pete stark to agree with bill barr, let's see if i can get you to agreeell, given that it's donald trump we're talking about, i'm not surprised in the slightest and i wouldn't be surprised if there were more highly classified documents at bedminster or some other residence of his. >> andrew weissmann, would you guess, an informed guess that there is a process underway to see if what john bolton says wouldn't surprise him, if they're looking for some of those missing classified documents or others at bedminster or trump tower? >> there's no way that merrick garland and lisa monaco have not thought of this. this is not rocket science. they are competent, thorough people. they have to be thinking about where all of these documents are, and they certainly aren't relying on a grand jury subpoena that called for the production of any document that has classification markings, no matter where located because they know that grand jury subpoena was not complied with, so they have to be scouring their informants and thinking through any and all next steps, includin

joining me now, andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and senior member of robert mueller's investigative mean, i say this -- i'm not a lawyer, but i can read. i mean, this judge is essentially saying, there's no problem. we can wait until late november. we have national security analysts on this network who are saying people in the national security world are terrified about what could happen between now and november. we don't know where this material is. how can a member of the judicial branch command the executive branch to not look at documents it owns? >> so, joy, reading her decision yesterday and reading her prior decision, it's like a greatest hits album, and it's hard to know where to begin because there's so many things that are so wrong. i personally think the thing you started with about her saying right out loud that she's going to give former president trump extra credit and weight here. that violates her oath of office. it's so fundamentally serious, and then your second point is, this is not something where it's like, okay, she violated her oath, but there's no real harm h

i want to take professor andrew weissmann's class at nyu law school. b would be fine with me. andrew weizmann thank you very much for joining us tonight, really appreciated. >> you're very welcome. >> and coming up. we will get a live report from this about the search and rescue efforts and florida hospitals are really struggling tonight. that's next. 's next. peaceful state. full plate. wait, are you my blind date? dancing crew. trip for two. nail the final interview. buy or lease? masterpiece. inside joke. artichoke. game with doug. brand new mug. come here, kid. gimme a hug. the more you want to do, the more we want to do. boosters designed for covid-19 variants are now available. brought to you by pfizer & biontech. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months... and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections, or a lower ability to fight them, may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, ha

andrew weissmann, you called up that sound, and we played it and it certainly delivers.sting on doj to prove what he says is true. >> absolutely. you know, i think there are two things that the department needs for backbone and it needs sort of hypercompetence. we don't know about that, meaning putting cases like this together, you need to have really smart, experienced people and as attorney general garland has said, they can't make mistakes. you just can't afford to do that. that's one part. the other part that is equally important is backbone. is having somebody like the attorney general saying that if this is warranted, i am going to do it. and it will be my decision and i'm behind -- i will stand behind you. and to me, that's, again, it may be, this is, like, a rorschach test and you read into it, but i think it's hard not to in this situation. and what merrick garland is saying, this is fundamental to his view of what it means to be the attorney general and to have the rule of law and to have a working democracy. i actually agree with him. i've been in the departme

andrew weissmann, thank you very much for starting us off. yamiche and neal, stick around.'t hold your breath for another trump pardon. steve bannon is expected to face a new indictment and details on the new legal troubles he's facing and if he will seem to surrender to prosecutors by tomorrow. we'll bring you the latest reporting on that story, plus, the obamas were back in the white house for a tradition that skipped a cycle. it's a tradition taking on powerful, new, important themes this year. they were underscored by former first lady michelle obama. we'll show you what she had to say about that coming up, later in the show, and our ongoing series ahead of the mid-terms. we'll head out to arizona where the entire slate of, gob candidates are election deniers and don't go anywhere today. and don'got anywhere today. there's a monster problem and our hero needs solutions. so she starts a miro to brainstorm. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. just then our hero has a breakthrough. "s

. >> tonight andrew weissmann at a stunning revelations from the snt why prosecutor fired by donald trump then, what we are learning about newly unsealed portions of the mar-a-lago affidavit and the republicans unveiled their plan to abort plant that

operation crossfire hurricane, the dirty dossier, fisa fraud, frequently peter strzok, lisa page, andrew weissmannd the same office for tim tebow "suddenly retired" was reportedly escorted out of the borough after allegations of liberal bias and misconduct in the hunter biden investigation and accused of slow walking the probe into hunter's laptop from hell to secure the election per joe biden, people that retire from the fbi are not walked out of the headquarters building on a hot sunny afternoon in august after being screamed at and ridiculed by his bosses like a laptop. this was a firing from. but no asking us to simply trust this very same office in the washington sewer and swamp with an investigation into joe biden's chief political rival. they want absolutely no scrutiny t at all whatsoever. and they rated mar-a-lago and would not let terms attorneys observed the search and demanded that mar-a-lago turn off all security cameras so that they could conduct in private. i thought we wanted -- cams and cameras on police for a good reason. it keeps everybody honest. they did not want the affidavit

former mueller investigation team member and an msnbc contributor andrew weissmann was in the courtroom earlier today. he says judge dearie was in no mood to give trump's lawyers the benefit of the doubt. >> if you don't present any evidence to me, trump, then i am left with the record that i have. i have evidence that these documents are declassified classified. if you decide for whatever reason you don't want to present any evidence, that's fine. you don't have to. but he then went ahead and say said, in this case becomes very easy. and i think that just means he is signaling, i will then have a record in front of me where there is no dispute that these are classified. and he is certainly not going to turn classified documents over. >> the special master also suggested his review might only take four weeks. that is a lot sooner than the november 30th deadline. trump's lawyers were also busy today responding to the doj's appeal to the 11th circuit court over access to the seized documents. they are calling for judges to reject the doj's appeal, arguing that the justice department has y

joining us now is andrew weissmann, former fbi counsel, former senior member of the -- land professoranks for being here tonight. >> nice to be here. >> so, this sounds like a lot of new information that this committee has and again, it is not just text messages, it is radio traffic, it is i think she said teams meetings, do you have any position about where this material may have originated from, or how it is being procured at the stage in time. >> yeah, i do you know used to be when i started out as a prosecutor, if you instructed -- destroy paper copies that was it, it was gone but now with laptops and this device a computer, and iphones it is really hard to get rid of something. so, even though there may have been routine destruction or even, worse somebody may have intentionally tried to get rid of something there are all sorts of backup systems and there is a cloud system if you send that message to somebody else, you can find it on their system that they have not been erased. so there are all types of ways the secret service could have tried to recreate what it is that happened

as andrew weissmann, the former fbi general counsel and senior special counsel for robert mueller's investigativem writes, one of the most dispiriting aspects of the decision yesterday by the federal district court judge eileen canson that it undermines the work of all the other judges who have tried to adhere to their oath and add minister justice without respect to persons and do equal right to the poor and to the rich and to faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all of the duties incumbent upon the office. her ruling is untethered to the law and presents a skewed recitation of the facts. her actions make the question who appointed the judge a sadly relevant one in evaluating a judicial upon. joining my know is an msnbc legal analyst and isn't any okney, former federal prosecutor and david r. cohen who is a former federal special matter of. thanks to all of you for being here. neal, i'm so glad you're able to be around because your tweet thread on this ruling, it captured my -- my vibe, my entire vibe. even as a non-lawyer, i read that decision as ridiculous because she seemed to be,

andrew weissmann spent years working in the department of justice. he most recently served as lead prosecutor in robert mueller's special counsel investigation. he's also in the brooklyn courtroom today for the first hearing of the special master, and he joins me now at the table. great to have you. >> nice to be here. >> give us a rundown of your impressions of tonight. >> the first impression was it was like landing back on china earth. it just felt so normal, having been in front of the judge theory, he was quintessential judge dearie, low-key firm, people who confuse him being polite with him not being firm, making a big mistake, and then he ran a tight ship. he was supposed to start at 2:00. at 2:00 he's on the bench. in 40 minutes it's over, and he put both parties through the paces. that's the atmosphere, he was in full control, and from the outset, as you noted, he was not having any bs from either side. he made it really clear to, i think the public that this is a civil case, meaning that the plaintiff in the case has the burden. this is not

i have andrew weissmann, neal katyal, matt miller.d. >> the murders of legal. eagles >> how them take it apart, get right. to it >> have a great show. >> thank you, thank you. >> tonight, the trump lawyers have filed a reply to

rumpas andrew weissmann, who spt 20 years working the doj simply put it with the doj briefly -- trump'sy. george conway's prominent conservative attorney and a former republican. he joins me now. first, let's start on that note. weisman's assessment and whether you share it. this is them saying, we have him, we can do this if you want. >> i share his assessment and i share your assessment. they have him dead to rights. this filing is the most recent explication of how badly with a bad situation he is in. it is absolutely no defenses that i can see. and i have yet to articulate a coherent defense. >> the meta context here is that they didn't have to do this, right? how do you understand the sort of message of this document, as well? there is the particulars of it, which is like, we have you, we have all this evidence. but why they went out of the way to file this, asking, can we get more space and then dropping this with the photos and all this evidence? >> because the trump people of making all sorts of false claims and irrelevant claims and making all sorts of sinister suggestions that

our andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former chief of the criminal operation in the district in york and professor practice it and why law school. he's an msnbc analyst. also mohsen, exxon security attorney. >> we knew would we be discussing the appeal. but, now, we have this breaking news from the new york times about herschmann, who now is clearly an important witness in this case. saying he told donald trump, last year, about the legal imperative to return these documents and the legal jeopardy donald trump would face if he did not return these documents. andrew weizmann, your reaction first to this news of eric herschmann and his standing now as a witness in this case. >> lawrence, that is definitely the right thing to start with. of the two stories that we're discussing tonight. that is the one to keep your eye on. because, in order to bring a criminal case. the key issue in any upcoming prosecution is, how is the government going to improve the knowledge and intent of donald trump. and you could not ask for anything better than a lawyer meeting with the person you are t

i have andrew weissmann, neal katyal, matt miller. >> we're gonna get right to it. >> have a great show. >> thank you alex. thank you. tonight the trump lawyers have filed a replied to the justice department's opposition to the judge appointing a so-called special master to examine some of the government records seized by the fbi at donald

and andrew weissmann, served as a lead prosecutor in the mueller special prosecutor's office and an msnbcd former aide to george w. bush white house, and elise jordan, an msnbc political analyst as well. what do you make of this ruling? >> i think it's really important for people to first understand that it's not the end of the world for the department of justice because the 11th circuit struck down what judge cannon had done with respect to every document that bore classified markings. what she's now doing has an effect on the investigation but a very limited one. i think that's the place to start which is that while her new decision is another example of her really being, in my view, unfit for office, it has limited effect. what she basically did, having told the parties she wanted to appoint a special master, having selected a special master, having chosen the person who was actually nominated by judge -- sorry, by trump as the person who trump wanted, that is judge dearie, the government went along with it in saying please verify the inventory so that there's no dispute as to what doc

. >>> joining our conversation, katie bennett and andrew weissmann. both msnbc crib tors. the delicacy with whichever public statement around ginni thomas is handled is so fascinating to me. if you are just going to bottom line it and put it out there, she is married to the only supreme court justice who doesn't want congress to look at the text which included her texts to mark meadows which basicallied to him to get with sydney on the fake evidence of fraud. what do you make of the importance of not just the public hearing next week but the private interviews still ahead? >> taking the ginni thomas pete first, there are legitimate reasons to have her be interviewed because as representative lofgren said, she had extensive communications with a lawyer named john eastman and she may have the information about a plot to basically behead the justice department so that crony could be put in and a keep to pressure the vice president. so she has a lot of information potentially as an important witness. and also connective tissue to these various schemes. so they there are good a

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