. >> bobby, of interviewed, covered, written books about president since nixon.d trump different from other presidents? >> well, this -- when i did the book rage, there are literally 90 pages where i quote these conversations. they were out there, including all of the ones we have played. earlier this year, i went back with my wife, elsa walsh, and great assistant, claire mullen, and we listen to this. and we said it's different. it thunders at you, and you see in his tone that the continual effort to deny, conceal to the point that i conclude, and i think, if the january 6th committee was investigating the virus, and trump on some of these other issues, there would be other witnesses who would tell us things that we do not know. but what we know in trump's voice, and carl said, it is -- we spent all this time and we spend 50 years kind of re-doing, learning new things about nixon, his taste would come out. and there would be more histories. that was criminal. we will never take nixon off the hook. but nixon never applauded against his own people. yes, he did in