i wrote a little about him. >> but you have written about jefferson, and the difference there is jefferson was -- jefferson was unable to make -- >> and john said that earlier this morning and annette gordon-reed was here. what i call it the jefferson conundrum, meaning how do you judge people who are great in many ways but in the light of history, i hate it when people use in the context of their time, which is usually a euphemism for, you know, excusing a moral lapse. but where so many people who fall prey to the jefferson conundrum. even in my work writing about biology with the code breaker, you have james watson who is the greatest biologists of the 20th century, does the structure of dna, but becomes racist basically in his feelings about race and heredity. so how do you teach watson and biology? how do you teach jefferson in history? annette gordon-reed was pretty interesting last, yesterday, and so was imani perry. which is, it's too easy for us to just dismiss a jefferson or something. now, i do give frank, i do think that you earn extra credit for being ahead of the curve of hist

i called the jefferson conundrum.eaning how do you judge people who were great in many ways but in the light of history, i hate it when people using the context of their time which is usually a geuphemism for excusing a moral lapse. but there are so many people who fall prey to the jefferson conundrum. t even in writing about biology you have a james watson who is the greatest biologist of the 20th century that instructed dna but becomes racist basically and his feelings about race and heredity. why do you teach watson in biology? how do you teach jefferson in history? annette gordon reed was pretty interesting yesterday and so is perry. which is it's too easy for us to just dismiss jefferson or something. i do think you earn extra credit for being ahead of the curve of history. >> franklin's reputation certainly he is held in higher regard through the lens of a moral framework by living his life. >> writes, and it comes to grips with slavery and of course jefferson does not even free even sally hemmings much less the

i had no idea jefferson owned slaves. these are folks who bought plane tickets, got hotel rooms and came to the site is a pilgrimage to see the home of one of the founding fathers, and get had no idea he was an enslaver. it made it clear to me there are millions of people who do not understand the history of slavery. i think part of what monticello and part of what is out of these places and plantations, madison's plantation, washington's plantation, they are, in different ways, grappling with how to talk about the things these men contributed to the american project. while also not shirking away from the moral responsibility to also talk about the ways these men were inconsistent with the very principles they were espousing. >> let's hear from our viewers. clint smith is our guest, "how the word is passed" is the name of the book. go ahead and make your comment or question. >> i would like to know if you are familiar with the well-established black doctor at tulane university, james puckett carter. he wrote "racketeering

i had no idea jefferson owned slaves. these are folks who bought plane tickets to rented a car, out hotel rooms and came the site as a pilgrimage and yet had no idea that he was an insulator. that was important for me because it was a moment that made it clear to me there's millions of people who don't understand the history of slavery and jefferson as a microcosm and if there's any way that we can this commensurate with the impacted in the country. i think part of what monticello and part of what a lot of these places, different plantations can madison's plantation,, washington's plantation can always places in virginia, they are in different ways grappling with how to talk about the things that these men contributed to the american project, while also not shirking away from a sort of moral responsibility to also talk about the ways these men in their own lives were inconsistent with the very principles that they were espousing. >> host: let's hear from our viewers. but smith is our guest. "how the word is passed" isn't

, how it is communicating jefferson was in the communicating the totality was supportive there doingonticello's including now the narrative of the descendents of people who were enslaved there and so one of the descendents had moment in the research that i was doing ray said, talk about the oral history that were passed down from people who were once enslaved to monticello they said this is how the word is passed down in one of those moments as a writer credit come across this and you say this is it like this is sort of embodiment the project is so that is where or how the word is passed came from and felt lucky to spend time in monticello the historians there were the descendents dad chose a place that is done a lot of important work ethics and reflects the way that are how telling a story one way for such a long period of time to summing it you will always have to tell it that way and how to tell the story jefferson wasn't enslaved folks were now is very different than how they told it five or ten or 20 or 30 years ago and i think that is important because these institutions are st

i think jefferson repeats it. i'm familiar with it through jefferson. he sends his kids, not his kids but to columbia rather than to william & mary. he becomes a trojan horse in the middle of virginia in some sense. that is that. the other thing is the west. you know, i think john was mentioning that first farewell address the circular letter of 1783, that is his most lyrical statement of all-time in terms of his vision for the republic. you can see it implied in the farewell address but you would have to know about it beforehand. that is, america's future is not with europe but to the west. lafayette says, come with me and we will do a grand tour. we will do paris, rome, we will do berlin. i don't think we'll do london. [laughs] he says, now, you come with me we will do detroit, we will do new orleans, we will do savannah. that is the future. that is the future out there. as a young man in the seven years war, he knows about what that is out there more than most other political leaders at the time. when you get to the louisiana purchase, it is funny be

so that is between franklin and jefferson to continue that tension of jefferson saying that i know that this is wrong. but this is necessary in order for me to have all of this. i think in some ways that is a metaphor. >> this isas bad about jefferson he was a deeper moral thinker. but then sometimes you know about deep philosophers that are amongst and yet the deeper philosopher it was reading john locke, they still can't have the common sense like the shopkeeper on market street. some of all the great philosophers jefferson should've gotten a little that better. >> so interesting because you are narrating through american history metaphorically through franklin when people ask the question today, it is such a powerful articulation why we need history. but why understanding these men is from understanding today and whatre you have been able to do throughout your career to look back and look forward from like benjamin franklin to steve jobs. >> that was ahead snap or. [laughter] r if you want to know he was aim the inventor with lightning rods to burning stoves and even the concept of f

malone has spent 50 years writing about jefferson and said jefferson the 17 '90s i don't really understand what he is doing. it's been 50 years we don't understand what is doing. what he's doing is lying it is a treasonable. he is stabbing washington in the back. i might be wrong, kevin tell me, i have often said to students and i hope i was right, jefferson wrote to martha when he became president he was close to mount vernon, can i come see you? she never answered i don't think. she said that washington said i never want that man on my property. >> is right after washington's death in particular martha has a very powerful statement for jefferson. let me bring up a little more at language here were going to talk about union quite a bit. it is all through this address the word union appears so much he will think you are reading for abraham lincoln. it's all through this address unity and union which constitutes is also known due to the word now jumps out at me. it's the edifice for the real independence for your tranquility at home of peace abroad of safety, of prosperity and the very libe

but jefferson and others make clear that. adams is doing an enormous amount of rank and politic behind the scenes, and he's referred as the most influential person. in fact, those at those first congresses. but jefferson will write adams a letter later after the second inauguration, which i think speaks to this, where he he you know, i don't know how you heard my inaugural address, but i hope what you heard was that it was an address to you because i wrote the thing a sort of a letter to you. and it was and he basically refers to adams as the sort of apostle of liberty and jefferson and trying to articulate the republican spirit is trying to channel as he puts it, the spirit of samuel adams. so there really isn't, in jefferson's sense, i think this idea that, you know adams stands from from another era in sort of relic kind of way as the fundamental touchstone of those of that kind of thinking. and the two of them clearly do see eye to eye on front. and jefferson, very kind of poignantly in that letter, says to adams, you kno

, there's so many that fall prey to the jefferson conundrum. even in my work writing about biology with the code breaker, you have james watson who is the greatest of the 20th century and becomes racist basically in his feelings about race and heredity. how do you teach watson and biology and jefferson and history. i do think you earn extra credit because of the curve of history jessica mitchell, i think -- yes, i think even as we -- the great thing about history, we get to reassess people there for relative and the tension. i think in some ways that's what this is for. they're very practical and sort ofoo gets it left. sometimes you know deep philosophers amongst the system. writing all these with ab average printer and deeply and i think it's such a powerful articulation in history but why understanding it throughout your career. >> walter, how did you, why did you, when did you -- >> if you want to know what ben franklin was. he'd say i was an inventor and lightning rods and wood burning stoves and the concept of federalism with the state an

it was a burst of anger directed at jefferson davis. so, he did, davis was even more of a, i forget, russian cuckoo cloud world. than anybody else in the confederacy at that point. lee would be respectful, well, mr. davies, things aren't looking exactly as we hope they would and i think could be prudent if you considered starting to evacuate some of the last important things of the confederacy. it would've been not get your rear and in gear and get ready to get out of town on short notice kind of warning. i'm, sorry i didn't get your second. i just couldn't hear it. >> i'll try it again. >> it's not me making that stuff cut off, i got a little button here. >> alan nolin in lee considered, he said that lee made it abundantly clear before richmond spurt that the cause was lost. no one argues that any loss of life really, as you look at the beginning of spring in 65, a loss of life that is on lee. well you say he did the honorable thing in surrendering at appomattox, how would you respond to someone like nolan who said leaves own words he

it was a burst of anger directed at jefferson davis. so, he did, davis was even more of a, i forget, russian cuckoo cloud world. than anybody else in the confederacy at that point. lee would be respectful, well, mr. davies, things aren't looking exactly as we hope they would and i think could be prudent if you considered starting to evacuate some of the last important things of the confederacy. it would've been not get your rear and in gear and get ready to get out of town on short notice kind of warning. i'm, sorry i didn't get your second. i just couldn't hear it. >> i'll try it again. >> it's not me making that stuff cut off, i got a little button here. >> alan nolin in lee considered, he said that lee made it abundantly clear before richmond spurt that the cause was lost. no one argues that any loss of life really, as you look at the beginning of spring in 65, a loss of life that is on lee. well you say he did the honorable thing in surrendering at appomattox, how would you respond to someone like nolan who said leaves own words he

and in fact, jefferson was not to be novel. he was trying to show that according to generally accepted principles, the colonists were justified in declaring independence. his goal, he said, was not to find new principles or new arguments. never before thought of, but to place before mankind. the common sense of the subject. and contemporaries didn't think it was novel either. people just didn't pay much attention to the preamble. in 1776. and then second, going back to point about no government following it, the colonists were not treating everyone equally. they were denying equality under the law in a pretty striking way. they were enslaving people and the modern reading of the declaration, of course, is inconsistent with slavery. so on our modern reading it starts out with the colonists branding themselves as illegitimate oppressors. that doesn't make a lot of sense. it would be very strange to start the declaration with a principle that condemns something colonists themselves are doing. and we can see this even more clearly

april 20, lee got something off his chest in a letter written to jefferson davis. to save the useless area and measures taken to the suspension and the restoration of peace. so it's my hope's biographers will take a look at the campaign as described. they are known to be wrong. [laughter] in a way, it became hollywood's go to shorthand for ending the civil war. i would suggest to you that this perfection does not happen by accident. while i hope, i don't expect everyone to agree with my revision, i do hope it might inspire some to revisit the civil war's more. thanks very much. [applause] if you have questions, i'll remind you all over here, i'll be happy to sign books. if you have questions right now, i'll be happy to answer. >> thank you. we got one, good. >> you described the faces, if you think it only moved in one direction or do you think it was variable? you think it was early toward d.c., was that more of a spectrum? >> was a defensive move. throughout the campaign, they would do damage to the north. there is just another -- i don't know he had higher hopes

look at history, jefferson said. have you noticed how people are always trying to profit off us own us? but what about you? how can you find you again? how can you love yourselves again? it's about finding your purpose. one day, jefferson, a hand go up in the back. it was george floyd's. floyd. finally felt comfortable. feel expressing his personal struggles in a way that he had not been able to plainly say to friends. he talked about how he was that he never went pro. so much of his identity, his self-worth, hinged on the expectation that one day he would be able to play ball. and now body was a mark of pride and a constant reminder of his failures. the physique of a man who tried but didn't measure up. the thing that people most admire did and feared feared. you are lovable, jefferson told him. you are important and your valuable. you're empowered. jefferson had men stand up. together, they repeated the mantra i am lovable. i am important. i am valuable. i am empowered. one of the things we wanted to do in this boo

so it was only in jefferson's presidency. after the great turn of the election of 1800 that the united military academy at west point was established. but notice the acceptance that it was a necessary and proper way of the common defense powers of the federal government. the second very contentious element in the grand strategy of washington and the majority his cabinet, obviously, especially hamilton as treasury secretary, was to having national bank. the argument was that such an institution was necessary and proper for fully various clauses in article one and in article two, including common defense clauses. because this is how britain had used the national bank, they invented the idea. the british and its constitution of liberty. they could large permanent or standing armies by having the capacity to quickly float debt to raise borrowed funds in order to quickly raise and support armies as needed for america, the argument went to national bank was a crucial element of republican prudence to signal to potential enemies our

they became cotton farmers jefferson. davis's brother gave him a large cotton plantation when the idea of the agriculture department came up for the first time, which is before the war davis. senator for mississippi and he said agriculture needs no teaching by congress agriculture needs no teaching by congress and it didn't not if your brother gave you gave you a plantation it did it was only for other people and i i think this this contrast really shows you better than anything that the contrast between the the government philosophies north and and south in the union. there was a belief that the federal government should play a much larger hand than it ever had before they wanted to create opportunity for people on the bottom. they wanted to create education. they wanted to create transportation. they wanted to attract immigrants they believed in growth. we can see at a distance that they were future-oriented all the things they were doing sound like things that came into full bloom later as the country further industria

there's another jeff davis avenue short drive away in jefferson davis's home. and presidential library is just up the highway like many mississippi counties, our court house at the monument to confederate soldiers. and some of our neighbors flew the stake flag in their yards. something i'd never seen any place else. so yes, in mississippi. remnants of the confederacy are everywhere. but even at the civil war relics, joe and brandon, mississippi change seem inevitable. tell me what sort of interactions are you having with folks who are interested in buying mississippi said people are buying mississippi way more than usual. evidently, there must be a shortage on the horizon somewhere in it, a shame like great. okay, my name is tim cupid. i'm a member of the sons of confederate veterans. when i started doing my family research, i found that my family on both sides union and confederate, but if some people lane last sunday, the lane right, or elaine's out, we won't people to remember our past what our ancestors went through. and this prize that we made, ah, i appre

a room with all 4 days later that jefferson davis statue was taken down, who and robert e. lee was removed from stone. at least circle a l. look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence at that point obviously is too great trust rather than fear i would like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot most protective own existence with ah, ah, ah, with ah, ah, hello, i'm manila chan you are tuned in to modus operandi there show that explores the methods and patterns of u. s. foreign policy all around the world, and the history that reverberates in our lives today. this week we'll explore the conflict in ukraine and the failure to isolate after the u. s. port and billions of dollars in aid and arms. binded administration went on a pressure campaign to rally the global community, to turn their backs on russia. was this succe

i am a direct descendant of james jefferson. johnson is my great great great grandfather . he fought in the 41st mississippi infantry. this is my son's conferred veteran certificate. what really got me just fired about route wanted some kind of a better organization is because of what's going on in the country. discrimination against black people, discrimination against the jews with discrimination against the war and get southerners. they accuse us of all be in races, you know? and it's a sign of rebellion. it's what the flag means. so a lot of people and that's why like k k, k and other groups use the flag, the part that me out, the worst is i wish my ancestors would have put a stop to it before you know, hey, got to the point that is today. we're anytime in my phase that played out america, things cake taping person. me what is referred to as a confederate flag? graphically, it is wherever you can separate it from all that it is stood for and a negative sounds. i'd love for us to have a symbol about which people had no evidence whatsoever. we're at a moment where we can

i am a direct descendant of james jefferson. johnson is my great great great grandfather . he fought in the 41st mississippi infantry. this is my son's conferred veteran certificate. what really got me just fired about route. normally i'm kind of like a better organization is because of what's going on in the country. the maneesha, it's black people, discrimination against the jews with discrimination against us or, or mom is currently engaged in southern they accuse us of all be in races, you know, and it's a sign of a 1000000000 is what the flag may. so a lot of people and that's why like k and other groups used to play the part that way off the worst is ours. my ancestors would have put a stop to it before you know, a got to the point that is today. we're in, tommy, why caesar play the automatic, the things k k p person. mm hm. what is referred to as a confederate flag? graphically, it is done. however, you can separate it from all that it is stood for an a negative sounds a lot for us to have a symbol about which people just had no hesitancy whatsoever. we're at a momen

i'm a direct descendant of james jefferson. johnson is my great, great great grandfather. he fought in the 41st mississippi infantry. this is my son's a confirmed veteran certificate. what really got me just fired about well known and some kind of confederate organization is because of what's going on in the country discrimination against black people, discrimination against and use with discrimination against us or what about discrimination against others. they accused us of all being racist, you know, and it's a fan of a 1000000 is what the flag means, a lot of people and that's why i like k k and other groups used to play the part that me off the worst is i wish my ancestors would have put a stop to it before you know, a got to the point that is today. we're anytime i say that played out a magazine. take a tape person, me what is referred to as a confederate flag. graphically it's however, you can separate it from all that it is stood for and a negative sounds. i'd love for us to have a symbol about which people had no evidence whatsoever. we're at a moment where we can

i am a direct descendant of james jefferson. johnson is my great, great great grandfather and 41st mississippi infantry. this is my son's a confirmed veteran certificate. what really got me just fired about well known and some kind of confederate organization is because of what's going on in the country discrimination against black people, discrimination against the jews with discrimination against a southern they accuse us of all be in races, you know, and it's a sign of a 1000000 is what the flag means to a lot of people and that's why like k and other groups used to play the part that me off the worst is i wish my ancestors would have put a stop to it before you know, got to the point that is today, we're any time i say that right now to make the things take a tape person with what is referred to as a confederate flag. graphically, it's funny, however, you can't separate it from all that it is still for a negative sense. i'd love for us to have a symbol about which people had no evidence, whatever were adamant we're we can do

played with ah, ah, ah, ah, ah ah, ah, ah ah, ah, ah, ah ah, in response to the violence of the jefferson davis monument, a group of self identifying white supremacists and neo nazis gathered at least circle in new orleans, where a white civil rights organization with they were there to protest the planned removal of a statue of confederate general robert italy. or why. on this day, it wasn't possible to separate confederates symbols from racist belief or 4 days later that jefferson davis stature was taken down. lou and robert e. lee was removed from his pedestal. at least circle. oh ah, will need to come to the russian state co. never the tires on the northland skiing with speedy. when else calls with we will ban in the european union the kremlin. yup. machine the state on to russia today and sports or t sports that given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with me. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. race is often very dramatic, development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strateg