i want to bring in steve patterson who is there for us in colorado springs and lisa rubin.ve, we're getting a lot of new details about the suspect behind the attack. >> reporter: yeah, much more after yesterday's advisory hearing. the suspect read their constitutional rights, visibly battered on a video link we saw after some heroics inside club q helping subdue the suspect, not leading to any further death. we know the suspect being held without bond until what is likely going to be a december 6th court case. that suspect scheduled to appear in person facing what are now preliminary charges, what are expected to be formal charges in the way of five counts of first-degree murder. also, learning much more on the suspected shooter's background. the fact that now we believe this was a ghost gun, the weapon used inside the club. no serial number. the fact that there was a filing before the hearing that we had yesterday. the defense team describing their client as nonbinary, using they/them pronouns which is pertinent to the fact that there could be hate crime charges in this ca

lisa rubin, legal analyst for the rachel maddow show.of course, msnbc legal analyst. thank you all so much for joining me tonight. i really, really appreciate it. bradley, i want to start with you. so, sources tell the new york times that mike pence recognizes the doj's criminal investigation as, quote, seemingly different from the january six committee's question, right? and investigations. of course, he's refused to participate in that. can you tell me a little bit about the significance of pence actually following through on this and speaking to the doj? what would that mean? >> sure, no, that would be hugely significant. and there's a considerable distinction, to mike pence's credit, between doj seeking his testimony versus congress. there was an obvious separation of powers issue with congress doing it, it's not a criminal inquiry. this is the justice department. it's run by a special counsel in terms of president trump's particular criminal exposure. this is a criminal investigation. there's established precedent that allows the ju

lisa rubin, legal analyst for the rachel maddow show. a good friend -- you along with many legal analysts have expressed surprise that merrick garland's decision to point the special prosecutor. why so. don't you think it was a necessary step? >> on one hand, i think president trump gave merrick garland no other choice. his rhetoric over the last 48 hours has only reinforce that. you know that on friday night for example, he said the deputy attorney general is being controlled by a former prosecutor. he is referring to our friend and colleague andrew weissmann. there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that -- who is known for her independence in her sharp acute legal analysis is being controlled by anyone much less by andrew weissmann. that having been said. one of the reasons i was surprised is because of the delay that this could cause and the fact that if the attorney general is satisfied with the performance of this person. you can only remove that person for cause. rising to the level of misconduct. not just negligence or you don't

joining me now is hugo lowe -- reporter for the garden, lisa rubin and hayes brown, columnist and editorat panel. welcome all of you. lisa, you first, do you agree with carole land sentiment? and what type of risk does pose for donald trump in your mind? >> look, i agree with carole that they did almost run out the clock. but almost is the operative word here. certainly, house -- doesn't have the meaningful opportunity that they hope to have to legislate on the basis of the tax returns that have now been asking for since the summer of 2019. that having been, said they still have the opportunity to review them. to make legislative recommendations about the audit processes for presidential candidates. for example, which are not compelled by law. that is something that most presidents and all presidents in the modern era except for donald trump have done. they can make those recommendations and yet not expect them to be followed by the congress. the third option available to them is this herald outlined to share what they had within -- donald trump's tax returns with the american public. th

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lisa rubin, as always, thank you for making time for us.republicans calling for an injunction to naming the winner of the attorney general race in arizona. chris mei is the democratic candidate in that race, joins us next. plus could biden's 2023 agenda bring more relief for working families? stay with us. with us or bipolar ii depression, caplyta can help let in the lyte. discover caplyta. caplyta is a once-daily pill proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and bipolar ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. in the darkness of bipolar i or i

. >> lisa rubin, you were nodding. >> i completely agree with that.h, as always, is so on point here. when we think about recent special counsel appointments, they are either investigations that were in their most nascent of stages, or they're investigations, as with the investigation, that did not exist until bill barr decided to appoint john durham to investigate the investigators, as we've been fond of saying. this is a wholly different situation where for months, if not for years, in the case of the january 6th investigation, the department has been looking at these things on its own with a very capable team, and a wide-ranging team of prosecutors and investigators across multiple facets of the department of justice. and to in that circumstance, you have to ask yourself, as barb did, why appoint a special counsel if there's nothing further to do? i think that's a really, really great point, and i'm glad she made, it chris. >> and harry, one of the other things that merrick garland said is he is going to give him the resources to conduct his work q