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neal katyal, thank you so much for being here this evening. you can find more of neal's insights at msnbc.com/opening arguments. and neal's not the only person who liked pomeranz. trump's former lawyer michael cohen also thought he should have moved forward. he's going to be my guest here on "the beat" tomorrow. >>> coming up, what in the world going on we alone musk? the twitter controversy impacting the globe and what happens next. but first, now they have had enough. now. trump insiders say, it's time to move on. bill barr warning trump will burn down the gop. how did we get here? that's next. that's next. downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. pour a cap of downy unstopables into your washing machine before each load. and enjoy fresher smelling laundry. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. shop for downy unstopables online, including our lighter scent. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard.

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i want to turn out to neal katyal, former acting solicitor general during the obama administration of professor law georgetown university. neil it's good to see you again. thank you so much for being here tonight. let me hone in on trump's tax returns for a moment. is it surprising to you that the court clear the way for the house like this? >> it's not surprising eamonn. not a single justice, says a lot about trump's application. it reminds us what our chief justice john roberts was in practice and one day call his clients that i got bad news for you, we lost 9 to 0. and the client says, how could that have happened? and john roberts without missing a beat says, well it's because there weren't ten justices on the supreme court. >> >> and for donald trump today the weren't ten justices on the supreme court, you would've lost all ten. the third time is lost at the supreme court this year, most notably losing to the january six committee on executive privilege 8 to 1. it's significant because he's been trying to hide these tax returns for over three and a half years, first modern presid

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former acting solicitor general neal katyal, thanks for walking us through it. we appreciate it. >>> in ukraine this morning manager are still without power after last week's russian missile strikes, and ukrainians are bracing for a winter without heat or electricity in some places. nbc news foreign correspondent molly hunter has the latest from kyiv. >> reporter: the international atomic energy agency planning to conduct an assessment on the zaporizhzhia power plant after a week of intense shelling. in a statement, they call it extremely disturbing but no radiation or loss of power has been detected. this morning u.s. secretary of defense lloyd austin saying ukraine will have the upper hand going into winter. >> i think they will be in much better condition than their adversaries because of the things that we've provided. >> reporter: in the newly liberated city of kherson, signs of life returning, the first grocery store reopening. but across the country as temperatures plunge below zero, 10 million households without power. the capital in rolling blackouts. w

. >> joining me now is neal katyal, now a law professor at georgetown university and msnbc legal analyst, and jill wine banks, former watergate special prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. jill, i'm going to start with you. it is hard to describe how apoplectic so many people are over this decision because it's essentially saying that if you run for president, you can essentially escape direct prosecution and fall into this process that at least other than nixon resigning, i mean, resigned, it has not resulted in direct legal consequences for any of the two presidents for which it seemed warranted and in the case of bill clinton, that was a political prosecution, but the special -- the statute doesn't seem to result in accountability for the president. what do you make of the decision to do it this way? >> well, first of all, i think uropening said everything that needs to be said. my first response was a tweet that started, expletives deleted because that's how i was feeling. but i have come down a little bit. i no longer think that it will be a waste of time in the sense of delaying thi

neal katyal had something to say about this last night, he is the former acting u.s.itor general, and this is what he said on msnbc, listen to this. >> i disagree pretty strongly with the decision by attorney general garland to seek a special counsel. i do not think it is needed under the regulations and i think that it risks delaying this investigation, needlessly. >> now, nil county all, he literally drafted the special counsel regulations 20 years ago. and now he is saying that he doesn't necessarily think it is needed. now, do you think that he is correct here? >> you know, simone, i think that we could do an autopsy on merrick garland's decision, and i actually think that there are good arguments on both sides for the special counsel. but we now have a decision. so i am going to look for the silver lining behind the big dark cloud that is hanging over all things trump, and frankly department of justice. look at who he appointed. he appointed a gentleman named jack smith. now, for openers, everybody that is a war crimes prosecutor at this has shown a special kind

with us, carol leonnig is with us, along with neal katyal, and jonathan lemire, most of msnbc's "way too early" and author of the book "the big lie." >> so, carol, you and jonathan's books have exclusive reporting about this episode at the heart of really one of the only disputed public allegations of perjury that the committee has made in the course of their entire investigation and it's over the testimony of some secret service agents and as far as we know, it's around this second-hand account that cassidy hutchinson provided under oath. tell us what the line of questioning is as far as you understand it for mr. ornato, carol. >> so, i did speak actually, nicolle, with some sources right before i came on today, because i wanted to understand a little bit more detail about what's unfolding behind the scenes in that interview. it's a virtual interview, where tony ornato is with his private lawyer. remember, he's since left government. and so, the government doesn't -- the government meaning the secret service, doesn't have a witness in the room, so to speak, but my understanding is t