o o r e even trying to hang up you. he had no idea. and to me that was the sad as part. this is the break. we're go. oh, the lawyer for nichols family has praised the memphis police for the swift punishment of the officers. oh, within 3 weeks, all the officers were fired. criminal charges were pressed against them and all were arrested. we are doing all that we noted to robinson thinks that sets a good example separating bad police from the good once they, i know they are great people there. i have worked with great police officers. you have bad players everywhere, but the system may not be such that we can act readily identify who those bad players. i and that's something we've got to get in place immediately because we don't want this to happen again. now i'm on half citizens who are afraid of the police as well. so what do you do? and city leaders like robinson are in the middle of self reflection on policing and likely will be for a long time to come. gabriel, lozano algae, zita memphis. ah, hello again. the headlines on al jazeera, at least 50 people have been injured in an explosion at a mosque in the city of a shower in northwestern pakistan. police say that they are expecting a large number of casualties. the u. s. secretary state is due to arrive in jerusalem in a few hours from now on a visit, overshadowed by spiraling tensions between israelis and palestinians, as really forces killed a palestinian man and the occupied west bank on monday morning. our diplomatic editor james base has more from occupied eastern is the biden administration going to get more involved than it is? now in the past, we've seen us administrations with shuttle diplomacy with special envoys, none of that from the biden administration, but certainly there are other members of the international community that would look more stronger condemnation of israel for some is heavy, had the tactics and more involvement from the international community, it's only the u. s. that stopping that happening. we'll see if the secretary of state, once he sees things for himself, sends a different message back to president biden when he returns to dc. us media have quoted a government official saying a drone strike is central. iran was carried out by israel, the strike kid, a military building near the city for hon. on saturday. iran defense ministry says at least one drone was shot down on the explosion, cause minor damage. you're up to date with the headlines on al jazeera coming up next studio, be unscripted. thanks for watching. bye bye. for now. the latest news as it breaks, bus forty's, or about a kilometer in that direction. you're going in military is scared now with detail coverage, where israel has the palestinian. you're calling me on the verge of collapse for a decade from around the world. this pro just thought expanded too broad, a social movement, not just against increasing the age of retirement, but also grants the continuing cost of living crisis. ah, biology and anthropology, genetics is really founded in a racist ideology. my name's adam rutherford. i'm a geneticist, author, broadcaster, i will inevitably get loads of racism and be called a racist. yeah, because i'm talking about race is. yeah, i'm fy 16. i'm an economist, one time political candidate, an activist. ah, unfortunately, cove, it could just be a dress rehearsal for something much where you look at climate and potentially on the pandemic and things that can go wrong. science is political and always has been political. and if you say is not, you haven't been paying attention for the last 500 years. ah, sad, and i've been dying to ask in the spec on how to argue with a racist. how do you argue whether racist? yeah, i sometimes worry that that title is a little bit pugnacious for what the book actually sets out to do. um, at the point is if you structure your, your arguments with, with facts and with science and with history, then these are tools which of the are very clearly anti racist in their, in their nature. right? that then they're not a political and, and science isn't a moral. and it does inherently have a political stance because it's done by people. and so, you know, i sometimes think that the conversation gets distracted by talking about white supremacists or active neo nazis. and you know, there's plenty of them around, but in fact, i'm more sort of concerned with talking to people who say, who effectively have racist views or say things which are effectively races without really knowing it. because it's built in race and racism is built into our society . when i was writing a little bit younger people were saying to me, um, you know, i wish i had this when i'm in the pub, when i'm sitting around the dinner table with thanksgiving table and talking to my dad and my uncle or, or it someone who says something which is like, you know, well on black people better at sprinting or will, you know, aren't jewish people more intelligence. and that's what i wanted to do is to say, well, a of the stereotypes correct. what is the data where you getting that information from and be how does those those stereotypes relate to how we understand history and how we understand, you know, historical persecutions or historical racism. and in almost all cases, what turns out to be the cases one, the data is probably not true and to their stereotypes that are rooted in, in history and, and a since, you know, that, you know, you've got a better argument. i'm gonna disagree with you to some extent, because whilst i find out back, super helpful when i, with campaigning and knocking on thousands of doors, actually sites don't seem to work that well when you have conversations with people . and because people always seem to find another fight, told they all, you know, they just weren't necessarily believe you. what did way was emotions and emotional connection and then bringing in some facts. i went gung ho like, you know, i've been doing stotts for many years. you know, whether it be some of the stuff i did for b, b, c, looking into whether we'd have a that prime minister and finding that, you know, black kids will have to wait 12 times as hard than a white stay educated and 90 times as hard as the white, privately educated to become prime minister, you know, but for the most part, people didn't take the aim. what they did taking was stories of, you know, my great grandmother being part of the british working class or, oh yeah, i went to that school too and having a connection with a teacher and then building that foundation of connection. and then trying to bring in like maybe some more scientific arguments and did you learn that on the job? i mean when you're going door to door. yeah. what was it like? it was really fun. i have to say, i really enjoyed doing. okay. and i mean, people might find that crazy people actually do you want to have it, school conversations and, and when they die and they make it really clear, sir, and you know, you can back off quite quickly. the thing i found is it's very rare that someone's races to your face when it did happen, but it was very rare. and people just want to know that they're speaking kind of human to human and they, they want to know a little bit about you and, and they're willing to have a conversation. and that really surprised me. one of the things that really struck me from like twitter, wow. diverse is knocking on people's doors. was how much more hopeful i was after a 2 hour session of light knocking on people's doors and talking to them rather than looking at my replies on twitter. and so, you know, people really surprised me and people would say that they changed their minds about certain things, but not for a fax, unfortunately. and i'm just that my whole life. like yeah, learning how to pull stats together. it was often because i had a really nice conversation with you today, and you know, sometimes is having that conversation was enough and you didn't have to bring in the stats in the science, but it's very hard to change people's minds. so saying that it's very, very harsh, and sometimes i felt like people would just be like say okay, just because i wanted to get rid of me. yeah. okay. so that was worked around. so how quickly when you open the door, cuz i didn't do that right. i don't, i don't go door to door and i like to see like how you are. i think i thought you were the race. it could just be so depressed so quickly. i mean, how quickly were people judging? very look you up and down and go. here is someone who looks like you, i don't know anything else. what about you? and therefore you fit into the following stereotypes that i'm going to adhere to. i had to demonstrate that i belong to the area to go beyond because people just would assume someone was like, are you from newer? which for people that don't know is that part of the sons and whether it's more people that look like me? and i've been, why would you see math, but when did it become this point of like i belong any day? well, again, i think that this is a lot to do with us or a cultural amnesia. i am very selective telling of the history of empire that actually black and brown people have been present in this country. what since roman times, admittedly in smaller proportions. but that, that, that's, that once you understand that phrase that we are here because you were there and the empire is the reason that we live in a multi cultural society. that if we teach that, if we have a much richer understanding of the relationship between the various colonized places that occurred during, during the years of empire, that may be there would be a better, a better sense of belonging that there were that, that, that it stops being so whenever you have questions your belong in, i grew up in a small town in e, in the east coast of england that, that was when i 1st experienced racism. but, you know, bear in mind i look like this might. so my dad is, is, is from yorkshire and my, my biological mother is indian via guy ana. right. so that's my mixed race. unless i did experience some racism in that, in that village when i was growing up. but it's not, you know, it's, it's, it's minor stuff. and also your parents didn't say to you, i always going which it most people of color that and i got, which is that you're gonna have to work twice as hard to get anywhere by and get that. i didn't get that because all of my experiences of racism were effectively positive and, and maybe that is a reflection of my own privilege and, and being mixed race rather than an integrated into one particular ethnicity. oh, new parent, cuz with me i missed an important part that might add to as about racism here. in fact, used to tell us if anyone calls either p when yeah. and he used to make his practice punching on him. this is hilarious when i'm no violent person. he's the line the 3 of us up and say right, punch me hair as hard as you can. if anyone ever says it to you you them in the face. i was 6 years old by and the, and this is and then my mom at the same time he was the polar opposite to my surprise adam was actually from pakistan and he would say no if they say that you tell them that and the p word means clean in or do. and so like one time barry, a primary school in the playground said to me the p word and i said, and i thought about it said, i punch him. i said i use mums line. and i decided not to punch him and say, and i said the p word means clean and he was so confused. and then i, he doesn't that it's, this was absolutely like her. because he has never said anything again or by a cuz he just looked so confused. so. so my version of that story is the parallels are very striking that because because um, when i got called the p was at school when i was about 7 by a kid whose name i still remember, but i went to that and i did punchin. and i do not advocate violence. i thought i got summoned by the head master. i'm and i was terrified because i thought i was going to get into big trouble. yeah. and what happened was he suspended him. i. and so the outcome for us, what i mean by being positive experience is really good because my thing is to say, just ignore it. yeah. yeah, i will say that so that that's why i think that my own personal experience, my own personal narratives is not necessary very informative for my own, for the development of my i did not absence. it says shown a part to try to understand what was going on in that situation, but i can't pretend that i've been the recipient of serious racial abuse through my life. more so for you, i'm gonna think, i mean, yeah, i mean, you get told now if you're a public person. sure. so you know, it's a, and it's certainly been instances 3 life. but for me, you know, it's more about the subtle ways that these things come up, you know, being in the room when you know your colleagues are talking about migrant labor and they say, well, migrant labor is become in from the caribbean and hochstein is become obsolete and you're in the room and nope, obviously forgotten your then so says, and actually i experienced a lot more racism when i went to the university of oxford and, and in like middle class, well, you think tank well and this is, you know, today the stereotype about the white working cause it was a really negative because there pathologist and to like this race is great and my experience of growing up with a white working class of course is racism everywhere. but i got much worse races them. and like when i was at the university of oxford, which really scared me because i was like these people are going to be in positions of power. they are gonna run the world. and i know what i really think i've seen them get drunk. yep. i think and so by at city was really important me deciding, he, you know, do you the policy why push myself to be more public in my wag? cuz i thought i what those people really think of us and what they think of working class people, especially. so i just on a big tv program on the bbc and i was used as an example of the bbc successful racial diversity. right. and when i heard that i was like, if i am your racial diversity, then you have a real problem. yeah. and it's very important that you point now because they will use year. yeah, well use us at times and it's really important that we say this isn't real change. we'll change is when i see in a ethnic, my nar is in this country and my, my scripts all around the world, you know, being given real opportunities, not on, not disproportionately or no weight is not disproportionate needs. i am from whatever buyers. so illness is coming up and you know, having equal access to public service is that's the real change that i want to see . it's not, you know, just the odds. they say black face is in high places, right. mike? yeah, yeah, no, no, you know exactly, and you know, we see we see good representation of black and brown faces on tv, but we don't see it behind the camera and we see amazing representation of black faces and you know, football for example, but we don't see any of it in the managerial stroke, if the support i really know gets to have power, he gets to write the script. he gets to coach the team. he gets to be the judge. right? so yeah, that type of representation, real representation and real power, you know, this mean listen, yeah. and not, and even the conversation about racism still, today's too superficial for me and like, i want to go much deeper, think much more about institutional change. okay, sure. we have some audience questions. yeah. i from toronto, canada, and as you've said, racism is politically advantageous in a white supremacist world. it wins elections. is one of the engines that keeps capitalism running. it justifies subjugation of racialized people to leverage labor and poverty. so why are we still trying to argue with racists about the scientific basis of our shared humanity when it would serve them to recognize it? here? well, that's a great question, but i think that the answer from my point of view is and, and parson, the motivation for writing this book is that the, i found that the, the science in this book is not new and not controversial. so the idea that biological essential isn't that an a biological basis for race has been utterly taken down by science, by genetics. that is a non controversial thing to say within the lab within academia. but what i found is the science communicator and talking to public's is that, that, that information hasn't filtered down into, into public consciousness. and that's on me, right? you know, i'm, i, that's my job is to do that. and, and then secondly, on top of that, that's in the last few years with the rise of populism and nationalism and changing political discourse, but also the way the public that embrace particular genetic ancestry testing kits. products i think has actually changed the conversation about race and re introduced biological essential, as in my dears, into the public discourse in a way that i don't think any of us within genetics anticipated. so i think part of my job is actually just again dis, abusing people of those of those ideas in a way that i didn't think we'd have to do if we were having this conversation 10 years ago. yeah, i want to acknowledge how hard it is to do this work, especially if you're a person of color and to have these conversations with race. if it's exhausting. and there's just times when you just think, what's the point of having this conversation, they're just not gonna, they're not going to, thea, but i think more generally what we have to do is counter the way in which m racism is being used to support certain governments and certain ideologies are right wing. yeah, quite mainstream ideologies. we've got to keep having that conversation. and one of the areas that i find that i get most home is when i have this conversation with the younger generation who are not everyone, but for the most part seems much more up for talking about if we need to all do the work and have the conversations and it doesn't to start with government, it's a, starts with you in your own households and within your own family and at your school. and you know, we need people to do the work that isn't just people of color. let's have another question. so you've des space a little bit on how cove it affects inequality. how do you think it could have been different with coven, if it wasn't for the polarization we had towards the virus? thank you. hope it really has exposed the levels of inequality in societies, whether it be about gender based in qualities, whether it be about race, whether it be about income and who's losing their job and who is most likely to die . and it's really put society under an x ray and demonstrate how much in a quality matches. and that is a lesson for us going forward. because unfortunately, cove, it could just be addressed rehearsal for something much worse and look at climate and potentially other pandemic and things that can go wrong. and i think to, he says, society is that can the cough to recover our import that can stick together. b that follow instructions, that's going to be really important for any kind of crisis coming up. yeah. from my perspective, it exposed to how we think about science and society as well and the relationship between science and policy. i'm and so, you know, the fact that it was racialized in to discrete ways, early on what, what one was the provenance of the disease. so is, you know, racialize the tax right here in london, a kid from my own university from singapore was beaten on oxford street in america . that there were so many attacks against chinese americans and korean americans that they has its own wikipedia page, newton in numbers in the many thousands already. so that was, that was one aspect to it. and then how and minority groups are more likely to be infected, more likely to die. and these are best explained by socio economic factors rather than, rather than sort of, you know, genetics or molecular biology. you can't deal with, with a pandemic without having science, and you can't make vaccines without science, that you know that, that is our job in, in this process. but if you don't deal with the underlying problems and, and in fact, the underlying cause is of this pandemic, which is man's human kinds interaction with nature itself. the fact that we are encroaching upon tarrot trees because of climate change and causing climate change, which means that we are interacting in nature where these viruses where corona viruses live, human kind is nor exonerated from this conversation is not a natural phenomenon that this, but this occurred this pandemic occurred is because of our integrated relationship and changing relationship with the environment. i think we can take another question. hi, i certainly brace, grow up his education and anti racism in education system. i think a large and is still not widely taught in schools and university or when it is taught. it's quite exclusive to slavery or, or history rather than an intersection or subject across all em or subjects. so in your respective fields. so economics and finance. how, what do you think needs to take place in order for 1st to be learning about racism and understanding anti racism in the education system? so i think we're an interesting nexus right now because the concept of anti racism has been weaponized against anti racist or which is, you know, are fundamentally problematic. you know, our government are focusing very much on this question of whether the introduction of, of discussions about anti racism, you know, are serving education. i teach at u. c. l, just over there. and some we have race and genetics and racin eugenics integrated into our biology biology courses. and that's been like that for 40 years . i think that might be a slightly unusual history because a lot of race science and eugenics actually occurred at u. c. l. and what i've discovered in the last couple of years since doing this book is that that conversation doesn't even smell outside of the biology department at u. c. l. let alone into a broader society. i think that over all my senses, but to normalize these conversations is part of the social change. it requires a political movement and it requires, you know, revolutionary voices and conservative voices. but ultimately, you know, i do think the arc of, of history is towards progress. i think that is true. i think we're in a weird blip at the moment. i don't know what you mean. do you agree or disagree with us? i hope it said blair, by or so worry that we are, you know, regressing, i think we are a very worry in time if we're not gonna learn the lessons from cove id and we're not able to say, okay, yes, we truly are going to build back better we're going to make sure we do do agree new deal and we do have higher wages and, and you know, invest more in our health care systems and the rest of it. and then we would have missed this, this major moment in which we could have had that acceleration of change, positive change like there was after the 2nd world war. and just, just to answer your question as well. and just what the economics discipline can do . i mean, is all kinds of problems with the way in which it economics is tor. but one thing i would say to those studying economics right now is to ask her distribution or questions, ask, who will this policy or will this particular way of looking at markets, he will be affected, he will win and he will lose and ask, why am when you are says questions and you follow that 3 of why you always come back to issues of prejudice. and it's really important for us to push back on subjects like, you know, her hair, i'm hearing from you on science and genetics and, and economics which also kind of thinks of itself as a science. sometimes even though it's a social science, i think it's fairly obvious to the audience. we both like poking the nest. um and you know, asking people to be challenged or deliberately challenged them. i didn't get into this to talk about race. i go into this because i really like evolution and dna and jeans, but the point, but there comes a point where, you know, if you're scientist talking about humans, then you can't not talk about this. and i think that you know, that my message to, to my, my scientific and colleagues and friends is that it's not enough to sit back and say, you know what, we did the research and it's up to people and publics, and governments to talk about the policy implications necessary or otherwise for my work, we are part of society and i think it's the same for economists as well. that, that's, that we need a much better, more integrative approach to understanding our history and how our history informs all present sciences, political and always has been political. and if you say it's not, you haven't been paying attention for the last 500 years. yeah, m as in really good to speak to you and even though i've looked at your birth, can i know that there's this history and science of racism and the way in which science is often used by, by racists. and i think it's the, one of the things that i'm really take from this conversation is really both as us as individuals trying to do our work and find in that, in our disciplines and economics and in science, there's this massive blind spot when it comes to race and racism, and prejudice, and the way in which it's playing out in our industries or sectors. i think that's something that everyone can look at their own spare of work and understand that racism and prejudice is always there. we all have it within us, but we're socialized to be racist all the time. we have to take out action to fire and it's both at the individual level and within our disciplines. and if we're willing to be have that conversation and be brave. and then we will be somewhere else in 5 years or in 10 years, and that is a work that needs to be done. so even though it's difficult, i do find it difficult and it's a positive sign ultimately, because, you know, it wouldn't be worth changing if it wasn't hard work like that. absolutely. and it is called a struggle for that for a reason. say, so keep going. yes. keep going, i'm going to do the turkish thing because we caught like a mm hm. mm hm. i couldn't accept the reality in my actually going to go on to rubber balls and cross the edge. ian with 60 people to see solemn in europe when i was a teenager listening to him and i never expected that this would happen. it's very, very important for me that you acknowledge the honor that is due to my food. i don't care the color skin, i don't care if you please cook my food, but at least respect my roots to come here, navigating b. o. christy, racism, language barrier a booth and take months and then we build your life. is myself a success the from the al jazeera london, rural call center to people in thoughtful conversation. people use the lowest get agreement. they describe the outsider with no host and no limitation. the difference between a migrant and refugee is truly a choice. when you are a refugee, you are forced to flee part one of asthma, khan and half an ac. had what has happened? a lot in the west is that culture and food is separated. hudy b unscripted on out his era. ah hope frances is set to visit the democratic republic of congo and south to dawn in a trip that is meant to heal the wounds that is still bleeding. will the pontiff visit started chapter of peace and reconciliation ending the internal conflicts of these 2 nations? pope in africa on al jazeera own county recalls the u. s. faces the fiscal show down over that limit, should the rest of the well be worried working with national health care
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