andy mccabe, let me start with you this. is a legal question. trump could face charges related to any number of actions leading up to the election of 2020 and then afterwards, and obviously leading up to january 6th. just to name a few, there is the pressure campaign on state election officials, the fake state electors plot, potential charges for inciting the january 6th riot. you were once the deputy director of the fbi. based on the public information, and obviously there is a whole bunch of information the special counsel has that we don't. >> sure. >> but based on the public information, where do you see the strongest potential criminal charges? >> well, i think we have to look first to the target letter, which referenced three separate criminal charges. the first is essentially fraud against the government. and that could take the form of the fake electors scheme, or the pressure campaigns, those sorts of things, or even just perpetrating this myth that the election was stolen from him when he knew in fact that it was not there. is the char

joining us now andy mccabe. we talk so much about these threats.e reason this one was just hours away from biden getting to utah. these threats were so recent. what was written on social media was so clear. s as i understand, authorities had been watching him and gone before tos assess the situation. how does it get this close? >> yeah, this is concerning. we often talk about the tough job the fbi has in trying to distinguish who online is a real threat from the many other people who say objectionable things ybut don't have the intent. so this individual was being -- was under investigation since at least last march when he'd made other threatening postings which brought to the fbi attention by a social media company. they went out to his house to talk to him, they had a confrontational interaction and then the taunting and threats to the fbi agents themselves came nonstop after that. so you have someone who is not only saying these things but indicating a intent and capability to carry the threats out. heavily armed, talking about targets ranging

and andy mccabe will tell you, when they start focusing on who they are and what is in the cards for them they are going to cooperate. >> that's how you lean on them in some respects, right, to have them understand contextually? you have some perspective here. you are by yourself right now. >> that's right, i think -- is absolutely. right i don't think there is never been a 19 person rico case that survive going to trial with all 19 defendants. you decide who to charge and how you are going to charge those people with a very close eye on who the very most significant targets and where those folks that you think are most likely to cooperate, to make an effort to cooperate, to plead guilty, to reduce charges, to provide effective testimony against the people who you believe are most responsible for these crimes. and i am sure that is sort of playing in the -- environment. >> i want to turn back to tom foreman at the magic wall. because, as you know, mark meadows is really fighting hard to get his case out of state court, brought to federal court. of course, that does not mean that he w

. >> andy mccabe knows the street of the mission district well.nce unhoused himself he's now the program director at the gubial project. it's a small nonprofit providing a place to rest, medical services, meals and connection to housing and treatment. and he says there's been an uptick. >> a lot of people especially around 24th and mission have been getting moved around a lot. so we've actually seen a lot of new people coming in that we've never seen before r. >> and as demand is going up, support is going down. >> we usual sli a pretty steady flow of people who come to help with coffee. come with help with sleeping in the church and passing out supplies. >> they're not seeing enough vo lun tours or donations. lidia is the executive director of the project. >> we have dedicated folks who are sending us monthly checks. but you cannot survive on that alone. in today's economy. >> now, keeping the doors open month to month for people like trevor watson. >> going to hear and having a place to, you know, lay down because at night, it's hard. here you c

i want to go to andy mccabe, if i can, because you're somebody who is more familiar with the grand jury process than all of us, except laura coates, of course. what are you thinking right now? do you think these are ten indictments of ten different people or ten indictments of one person or you're not going to guess? >> it's tough to make a guess. >> okay. >> i think it's -- i wouldn't rule out seeing some indictments with multiple folks on them. so, if, for instance, a particular activity, let's say the fake electors is condensed into one indictment and you have multiple fake electors -- >> so, it might be ten indictments -- the number is the crimes? >> you could organize them by content. you could organize them by individual. if you have three individuals who are involved in the exact same conduct, it would make sense to put them together on, for instance, one indictment. so, i don't think we can automatically assume it's exactly ten people at this point. >> we've been told that nearly 20 people were informed that they could face some kind of charges. so, that's 20 there. and we also

andy mccabe, as former deputy director of the fbi, tell us your view of what you think is going on in there now, and are there law enforcement officials beyond the prosecutors from the special counsel's office? >> typically there are. this is obviously not a typical situation. but typically the defendant surrenders at the courthouse, is taken into custody by law enforcement, be they fbi agents if it's an fbi case or u.s. marshals, and go through processing. that's where the photographs are taken, fingerprints are taken. and biographical information is taken from the defendant, their name, how they spell it, date of birth, sorts of basic facts. and while it seems mundane, that is actually the information that's put into a system we refer to as ncic, the national criminal index information centers. and that's what forms your rap sheet or your -- your arrest history essentially. so it's -- you have to have that information. the company with the photograph and the fingerprints in order to make that entry. and that's -- that essentially establishes the first official record of the arrest w

survey of those who investigated trump, have the universally proven their critics right, jim comey, andy mccaber strzok, james clapper, andrew wiseman were all empowered to investigate trump, all have and retain a d hatred of him. if you're looking for fairness or independence do not pick investigators or prosecutors who love or hate the targets of their investigation. everyone on the side of jesus, my mom and my wife are capable of doing something wrong, something unlawful, as such is the nature of humankind. that includes former president trump, he like the rest of humankind is fully capable of committing criminal acts but the public must have confidence in the objectivity, the fairness, the historical equality, the confidence, the independence of those investigating prosecutors. many people in this country do not believe in the objectivity of prosecutors anymore and that is true actually on both sides of the political aisle. our last question comes from sharon from murray kentucky. >> hey trey, what is your opinion on the best way to deal with the corruption of washington? >> send a better p

and andy mccabe will tell you, who they are and what's in the cord cards for them, they're going to cooperate. >> that's how you lean on them. you have to have perspective here. you are by yourself right now. >> that's right. i think gene is right. i don't think there's ever been a 19-person rico case that survived going to trial with all 19 defendants, right? you decide who to charge and how you're going to charge those people with the very close eye on who are you most significant targets? and who are the folks you think are most likely to cooperate to make an effort to cooperate. to plead guilty to reduce charges to provide effective testimony against the people who you believe are most responsible for the crimes. i'm sure that planning when it's in this environment. >> i want to turn back to tom at the magic wall. as you know, mark middose is really fighting hard to get his out of state court and brought to federal court. that's not to say he won't be charged on federal charges. but federal court if successful. he's not alone there, either. he's been joined by two other defendants in his

. >> what's interesting also about this, andy mccabe, former deputy white house -- deputy fbi director is the allegation of the fake electors. the idea this is not an organic protest. i feel like i support trump and, therefore, i'm going to pretend to be an elector. that it was organized. and it talks about how trump, this is on page 5 of the indictment, how trump and the co-con spiritorsized these slates. they didn't spontaneously happen. they organized the they said that the strategy, quote, includeusing the fraudulent electors to meet when they were to gather and cast their votes,ast fraudulent votes for trump, sign certificatesalsely representing that they were legitimate electors and then it says some of these fake electors, i'm just quoting here, were tricked into participating based on the understanding that their votes would be used only if trump succeeded in the lawsuits within their state which he never did. so this is not only -- i mean as always with donald trump, he is often committing these offenses against the american people but against his own supporters. >> that's rig

and i was talking to andy mccabe here earlier, looking at the shots that you had, and it is about the seen and unseen in terms of the layers of security in what they have to prepare for today as well. >> reporter: yeah, a whole lot of things going on and a whole joint operation center with the fbi, the secret service, local marshalls, the washington, d.c., police, the federal protective services, and everyone is working together and monitoring the social media, and looking to see what people are saying it, and who is saying they are coming here to cause any kind of disturbance or violence. that is what they are worried about mostly here, and this is why they have set up these security measures, kate. >> great to see you, and great to have you there, shimon, and a lot will be happening there in the next couple of hours. john? >>> and so much of this is surrounding the fake elector scheme. it is that the donald trump and the administration tried to use this slate of fake electors, and joining us now is the our analyst eli honig, and this is very important of the scheme to the indictment

and there are legal law enforcement analyst andy mccabe and we saw the snowplows lining the barricades, and what level of security ramp-up do you see this looking like today? >> well, kate, this is really what i expect to see for us to secure an event or a situation like this. the snowplows are a go-to tool in creating what we refer to as a frozen zone. so they are used to block the vehicular traffic on to the blocks or the area around where your major threats might take place, and the protech tee is going to be. that is why they are staged on the streets in d.c. today and not because they in a position now the protect, but deployed quickly to stop the traffic in the event that the motorcade arrives later. so d.c. knows how to do this, and the mpd are very capable of planning for and executing a discrete security position around an event or location where you will have folks who are typically facing numerous threats. >> this is the same building, andy, where so many of the january 6th rioters turned defendants have been process and arraigned and prosecuted, and donald trump who they sa

here to share their insights is former fbi deputy director andy mccabe and paula reid.ay one on tv. so talk about the back and forth in the filings between the special counsel and the trump legal team. >> clearly, they are very far apart on exactly what any protective order should cover. you don't want defendants share ing sensitive information that they learn in the course of preparing for trial, but here they are extraordinary circumstances. we know the former president often goes on social media to share things prosecutors have expressed concern about how this could impact witnesses and other people in this case. now prosecutors want a very broad protective order. they want this to be restrictive. they laid out their reasons for why. the form er president's lawyers are asking for something more senator row. they are saying this should be limited to the most sensitive information. they point to the fact that it's what been applied. this is like any other case. >> worse, it does so against its administration's primary political opponent during an election season. a lot

. >>> perspective from senior law enforcement analyst andrew mccabe, also sarah flak, and jessica roth. andy, let's start with the obvious here. you know, it's a big deal for mark meadows to testify under oath this early in a process. how big of a deal? >> huge deal, john. huge deal. and it's potentially very, very dangerous. he is a defendant in a criminal matter. he has not had the benefit of seeing the government's case. he has not -- in his course of his experience as a defendant, he'll get to see through discovery the government's evidence, any other statements they have of him that they may try to use against him. he hasn't seen any of that stuff yet. so, now he's been under oath on the stand, making statements that will undoubtedly be brought up to him again if he decides to take the stand in his own defense in the criminal matter. so, it's very, very risky move for him, but it shows you how intent he is on trying to get this case out of state court. >> so, jessica, pick up on that. very risky but, to mark meadowss and his attorney, who's very experienced, they think worth it. why? >>

andy mccabe, the former deputy director of the fbi told us he thinks things like this will get worse is in front of us. january 6th. the plot to take over the state of michigan. the michigan governor. the burden is on people in positions of responsibility. there is no link to donald trump per se. he did not say do this. but his words, right, he posted the other day on truth social, come after me, i'm coming after you. given what happened in michigan, on january 6th, anyone in position of authority and influence, people in the news media, politicians, be careful. look at the environment you are in. accept your responsibility and act responsibly. if you didn't mean it but you saw some unintended consequence, dial it back. change it. say i don't mean violence. tone your language down. we live in a polarized society. you see this slice of radicalization. it's growing. talk to anybody in law enforcement. it's growing. when something like that is growing, anybody in position of influence and authority a needs to think about how they said it. >> he has a new ad now in new york and georgia c

andy mccabe, how important, and damning is that recording which we have now heard?ording is key to this indictment, the federal indictment, because it is the most damning piece of evidence to shed light on the conspiracy to apply pressure to state level officials to essentially change the election results in their states. it is remarkable. we have all heard the quote that has been repeated many times. trump asking for 11, 000, some number of votes. >> that is all he needs. one more than biden. >> it is not subtle. >> you made a great comment because today there was a parallel. very similar to his posting on truth social earlier today, he says i only need one more indictment to win the election. anyway, what is impressive to me in the indictment is that you get more than just that. they show how over the course of what was actually a very long conversation, trump basically presented to raffensperger all of his theories about how fraud had taken place in fulton county, and other places around georgia. and raffensperger and his associates had direct factual responses t

former fbi director andy mccabe and carrie cordero and legal affairs correspondent kyle cainy. trump. not just the criminal trials but the civil trials as well. just a brief look at the calendar of the enormous amount of legal problems for the former president. just as the primary season will be getting under ware and voters will go to polls. it is a real problem here and a cl challenge for him. and the big thing we're watching is the mark meadows case, the white house chief of staff and arguing that he wanted to move this case, kyle, to federal court, get it out of georgia. explain what he's trying to do here. >> sure. so his argument is all of the conduct i'm charged with, everything that they're saying i did was in the course of my duty as the white house chief of staff and that entitled me to have my case adjudicated by a federal court and dismissed because states are not supposed to be able to criminalize the work of federal officials if it is part of their official duties an that is the key fphrase and that is what the state will say. you were trying to help subvert an el

andy mccabe, i'm about to jump all but what is the most damning thing in here do you think?> to me, the most damning thing is the volume. there are so many opportunities for the district attorney to prove this case and it is some of the acts are really headline grabbing. the donald trump ordering johnny to draft a memo to how to overturn the results of the election, that is remarkable. i don't think we've heard that before. >> johnny mcentee not indicted in. those >> notably not indicted. and then other there's 1 million phone calls and emails. >> if i were some of these people who were indicted, i want to find out who is not named and not indicted and figure out who was talking and what do they have on me? because she said people have until friday to come on in face of. well, i would want to know

. >> what is interesting also about the andy mccabe, former deputy fbi director is the allegation about the fake electors. and the idea that this is not just an organic protest in seven states where people said, well, i feel like i support trump, therefore i'm going to pretend to be an elector. that it was organized. it talks about how trump, this is on page five of the indictment, how trump and the consrators organized these fraudulent slates. they didn't spontaneously happen, they organized them. th sd that the strategy, quote, included causing fraudulent electors to meet on the day pointed by federal law on which legitimate electors would gather and cast their votes. signed certificates, falsely representing that they were legitimate electors. and then it says that some of these fake electors, and i'm just quoting here, were tricked into participating, based on the understanding that their votes would be used only if trump succeeded in the lawsuits within their state, which he never did. so, this is not only, i mean, as always with donald trump he is often committing these offenses,

. >> andy mccabe, you know something about the public communications of the former president of the unitedou've been on the receiving end of tweets of his. how do you think that judge -- is handling it and the sending the message of -- >> i think she's doing a fine job so far. as carrie intimated, we have a lot of ground to cover here, there's certainly gonna be a lot of opportunities for the former president to flare out in the way that he prefers to on social media. he has never met a line that he didn't cross or a norm that he didn't break, so i wonder how effective, if the judge finds herself in a position without having to set limits or tied him for his activities and social media space, i think that will have a provoking effect on him. so it's hard to see how those two forces working in opposite directions and up in a good place at the end of the day, but i think all signs so far is that this judge is very much in control of her courtroom, she's gonna run this calendar the way she sees fit and the defendant is just gonna have to go along with it. >> and what does that portend in term

he's not being indicted by andy mccabe sitting in a room. people forget that. i've heard so much about potential biases of this judge in d.c. look at the judge he got in florida. it's one he appointed and rule in favor of him and had to be overruled by the 11th circuit. so it's a bit of this, that bit of that. i love the people of south florida. i can't get a fair shake with the people in d.c. don't commit crimes in d.c. if you don't want to see a jury of d.c. residents. that's how it works. don't commit crimes at all and you can be running like a normal candidate. i was particularly struck by bill barr's interview last night. he went on. i thought this was going to be one block. he stayed on 40 minutes. really gave a whole host of opinions on this. one thing that particularly struck me is he thought the indictment was stronger than he expected it to be. so he thinks the mar-a-largo case, the classified documents case is the strongest. there's agreement on both sides of the aisle that that -- with the audio tapes and the pictures, et cetera. bill barr was sayin

. >> laura: i mean, bret brett, speaking of have no credibility the former fbi director andy mccabe wasn the other networks. this was his analysis of the indictment. >> all conspiracy statutes, so they require that the person charged entered into an agreement with another person to commit the criminal act and then, of course, executed at least one act in furtherance of that agreement. >> a majority of house republicans vote toed disenfranchise the voters of pennsylvania and arizona. >> if you indicted in this case, i'm not sure we will but if you do it will be someone who just went beyond their vote in congress. >> laura: bret, they are now at the point where they are not going to try to just put trump in jail, but, i guess, a member of congress who supported donald trump. do we see where this is going? that's what they want. >> that's right. that's what they want. they want to go after politicians. they want to go after anybody that disagrees with them. you look at section 241, that's the charge they are bringing, a civil rights claim against him and that's their conspiracy? that charg

. >> let me ask you a question, andy mccabe. you were acting deputy director, you were acting fbi director. you dealt with donald trump when you were a law enforcement official. look at the image on your screen right now. did it ever occur to you that mug shot of donald trump? >> of course not. my interactions with donald trump, my personal interactions were early on in the administration. certainly didn't see into the future where we would end up. but i think the point that you make on the consideration of removal, there's no question that could be a very effective legal strategy. it is an obvious and momentous thing for any of these similarly situated defendants to do, but i still think it's going to be very hard here. and i totally respect your tallying of the counts, but ultimately to make the case these acts were committed within the scope of their authority, they had to have been authorized under federal law. he had to have been acting under some authorization of federal authority. and the federal law gives the president o

. >> the massive question andy mccabe, you were fbi director, we were deputy fbi director. he dealt with donald trump while he was president as a law enforcement official. you look at that image on the screen right now, did it ever occur to you that that would happen? a mugshot of donald trump? >> of course not, right, my interactions with donald trump, my personal interactions with him more early on in his administration. we couldn't see into the future where we would end up, but, i think the point that you make on the consideration of removal, there is no question that could be a very effective legal strategy, isn't obvious and moment is paying for any of these defendants to do. i still think it will be very hard here. i totally respect you are telling of the council, but bolton medley, to make the case that these acts were committed within the scope of their authority director have been authorized by federal law. they have to have been acting on the authorization so federal offshore in, and federal law gives the president of the united states zero more in the calculation

he's not being indicted by andy mccabe and peter strzok sitting in a room. and people tend to forget that. and i've heard so much about the potential biases of this judge in dc. look at the judge that he got in florida. he got someone that he appointed who already ruled in favor of him with the special master and then had to be overruled by the 11th circuit. so you know, it's a bit of this and a bit of that, right? like i love the people of south florida. i can't get a fair shake with the people in dc. well don't commit crimes in dc if you don't want to see a jury of dc residents. that's how it works. don't commit crimes at all. and you could just be running like a normal candidate. i think i was particularly struck by bill barr's interview last night. he was with kaitlan collins and he went long. right. i thought this was going to be one block. and he stayed until about 40 minutes into there. and really gave a whole host of opinions on this. and one thing that particularly struck me was that he thought that the indictment was stronger than he expected. it t

shield himself from policy, everything from making sessions cry to firing jim comey to attacking andy mccabestigation into him, to maligning -- everything he does, he's largely attacking republicans who work for him, and all of it is because they veer too close to scrutinizing his conduct where there may be crimes unearthed. what do you make of where we are as a country today on that front? >> well, i'm not sure yet. i mean, i appreciate what ben just said -- we shouldn't be embarrassed, we shouldn't be afraid, but we shouldn't be naive. the country is deeply divided. there's a question around the legitimacy around government. there's a question around legitimacy of the judiciary among a large number of americans. donald trump is the consequence of us sticking our heads in the sand around the thick and complicated question about executive power. people were screaming from the top of their lungs, nicolle, if we did not come to terms with the presidency, we'd get someone into office that didn't hold to norms and all hell would break loose, and it happened. i have been sitting here since yester

joining us is senior law enforcement analyst, former deputy director of the fbi, andrew mccabe. andyre talking about, there are specific and it was kind of ongoing and continuous, the threats that were coming that he was posting online. josh went through some of it. and even just last week, this man noted that president biden would be coming to utah, saying he would begin, quote, cleaning the dust off his m-24 sniper rifle. this gets at something that we have discussed for a long time in many regards, which is how does the fbi decide when speech rises to the level of an actual threat? >> well, kate, what you have just referred to, these are the exact things that the fbi looks for when they are coursing through reams of threatening speech, threats that are brought to their attention, they have the very hard job of trying to figure out which of these speakers could actually become an actor, which there's a lot of people who say a lot of controversial things on the internet that they're not all actionable threats. but this individual, his repeated focus on political leadership, repeated

back now with the panel here, abby phillip, jamie gangel, dana bash and andrew mccabe. andylet me start with you. because, one of the strengths to the case put forward by both the special counsel and also the january 6th committee is how much of the testimony is from not just republicans, but from trump supporting republicans, people who are with him at the very, very end. and one of them is the then acting attorney general, acting deputy attorney general rather, richard donoghue and i interviewed him and talked to him some months ago about the scheme put forward by jeffrey clark who is mentioned as co-conspirator number four. in which he was trying to get donoghue and the acting attorney general jeffrey rosen to write letters to state, specifically georgia, but also others, saying that -- lying that there were -- that the justice department had identified serious problems with the election and i asked donoghue go that. let's roll that clip if we can. >> that a letter claimed that the u.s. department of justice's investigations have, quote, identified significant concerns th

mccabe back with us. nick valencia and juliette kayyem with us as well. andy let's be clear, we have the governor talking about a shooting, talking about a shooter. this as we know the school is in lockdown. students are being told to shelter in place. all classes have been canceled for the day. and yet police are not saying shooter or shooting, they are saying an armed and dangerous person is on or near campus. can you explain to us just the difference there in language and what that amounts to? andy, do we have you with us? >> can you hear me? >> yes, we got you. take it away. >> no worries. so at this point that sort of language discrepancy could be based on what the police actually know from witnesses who led to this realization that they have a threat. so if you have witnesses telling you for instance you have someone walking around campus who is heavily armed, they would refer to that as an armed and dangerous individual. so you may not have witnesses who have actually seen a shooting take place, it may also mean that police have not identified a victim