. >> glenn kirschner, one of the things that john eastman also said was the general thing about this kind of prosecution of him is penalizing him for just using his first amendment rights. is that what is at issue in that 11:44 pm email in which john eastman, in writing to the vice president's counsel, advocates violating the law, and he acknowledges that it would be a violation of the law. he causative minor violation of the law. he is advocating violating, the vice president violating the law at 11:44 pm on january 6th. is that just his first amendment right to do that? >> no. that's a criminal admission that all but sinks him. not only does he say, you know what, let's just engage in a minor violation of the electoral count act. he actually says let's engage in one more minor violation. so that's really an incriminating twofer. he's admitting, they have done it before, so what the heck? let's do it again. the other thing he did, lawrence, is he said when the dust began to settle, he said i'm going to need to be on the pardon list. and you know, the supreme court has said, albeit w

also glenn kirschner, former fellow current prosecutor who was at the courthouse today. both msnbc legal analysts. glenn kirschner, let me start with you, as our eyes and ears to everything that happened in that room. i read the transcript and i have to say, john lauro delivered when i read to be the single best performance by a trump lawyer in the courtroom yet. no wiseguy comments about the prosecutions. no nasty sleazy remarks or slight here and there. just professional all the way through. we and then he goes on fox and throws the case away. but take us into the courtroom. >> yes, it's not that hard to be professional during an arraignment because generally nothing earth shattering happens. but i agree all parties performed well. but what i really enjoyed about watching, even though i was in the overflow courtroom, it was the specter of judge tanya chutkan hung over that proceeding. the proceeding was conducted by a magistrate judge. that's not unusual. the magistrate judges often handle the relatively straightforward, low level, preliminary matters like an arraignme

glenn kirschner still with us. glenn, you wrote a piece right now that is the number one most red on msnbc. com. this stuff matters. break it down for us. is this a clear violation by trump? >> it is, steph. so i was in the courtroom, albeit -- when the judge, the matter magistrate judge announced donald trump's conditions of pre trial release. and, the magistrate judge said, and i quote, the most important condition is that you not commit any federal state or local crime. if you do, a warrant could be issued for your arrest, your release could be revoked, and you will be detained at the trial, jailed. what did donald trump do? within days, he posted something that violated georgia state law. he posted that and i'm paraphrasing i know that former lieutenant governor jeff duncan is about to testify to the grand jury, and i, quote he said, he shouldn't. in other words, he should not testify. what is that? the violates the state code section 16-10-93 for unlawfully influencing, were attempting to influence a witness. s

don't play. >> glenn thrush, katie benner, glenn kirschner, great to have you all starting us off on this friday night. when we come back, ron desantis goes further than ever before in rejecting trump's election lies. but the former president is still way ahead of the florida governor in the all-important state of iowa. jon allen and reed galen are here. and next, lizzo's response to the -- the 11th hour just getting underway on a busy friday. >> we are a little more than five months away from the republican iowa caucus is, the first contest of the 2024 primary season. but donald trump has a lot more updates than that to worry about. just take a look at his calendar of political and legal events heading into next year. the iowa caucuses are the same day as the second defamation trial in the e. jean carroll case. so, let's discuss. i have got jon allen here, senior national politics reporter, and great friend of mine, from nbc. and reed galen, cofounder of the lincoln project. he has worked on a number of gop campaigns, including john mccain, arnold schwarzenegger, and george w. bush.

glenn kirschner is back with us.our lawyer have to be before you are defense based on advice of counsel completely collapses? >> it sounds like a set up for a punchline, lawrence. here's the thing, you know, reliance on advice of counsel can be a viable defense. think about one of the more ordinary circumstances. my tax lawyer told me i could take this deduction, and it turns out you couldn't take that deduction. it was illegal to take that deduction. you may very well have an advice of counsel defense available to you. i think, implied, there is a word that is implied, in the reliance on advice of counsel defense. it is reliance on advice of a sober council. you know, i think donald trump has an uphill climb here offering a reliance on the advice of counsel with a straight face. here is, i think, a more fundamental problem than rudy giuliani's possible intoxication when he's giving advice to his client. when i saw the first indictment come out, the january 6th indictment, and we learned rudy giuliani was one of the

glenn kirschner, i turn to you first. i want to share what a former judge, michael lubbock, said earlier tonight about donald trump and these charges. >> these are as grave as offenses against the united states as a president could commit short of treason. >> he lost burns, where he gave lies to attack on a united capital with the intent of disrupting of not preventing all together the counting of electoral votes for the presidency of the united states, which is, in america, a sacred proceeding. he just does not get much graver than that. >> how powerful is of this indictment? >> you know it is so powerful it was so necessary because often we talk about how politics will help us change course. how many times have we heard both the bombs out. let's get rid of the elected officials and put a new batch in their. i have been maintaining for quite a while now that it really is only the rule of law that could save our democracy. i know that sounds hyperbolic, but without holding donald trump accountable, criminally accountable,

as glenn kirschner writes, this is only the beginning of a convoluted and lengthy process of justiceald trump. those involved have a responsibility to apply the law equally, without fear or favor, otherwise his brazen floating of conventions, not to mention laws, may only get worse. joining me now are erin hayes errin haines, a founding member and editor at large at "the 19th", to anna bower, lawfare correspondent, and kendra cotton, of the new georgia project. it's great to have all three of you with us. thanks for -- anna -- i want to get your thoughts on this breaking news we just got into our newsroom. mark meadows vowing to dismiss the charges against him entirely. not just to have the moved to federal court, but now he's saying he shouldn't even be charged for anything he did, because of the supremacy clause of the constitution. >> right. so meadows is arguing that under supremacy clause, immunity, because he was fulfilling his federal duties as the former chief of staff during the time of the alleged conduct, he therefore cannot be held accountable under a state prosecution. w

don't play. >> glenn thrush, katie benner, glenn kirschner, great to have you all starting us off on this friday night. when we come back, ron desantis goes further than ever before in rejecting trump's election lies. but the former president is still way ahead of the florida governor in the all-important state of iowa. jonathan allen and reed galen i hear. annexed, lizzo's response to the -- the 11th hour just getting underway on a busy friday. n a busy friday. rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. (fan #1) there ya go! that's what i'm talkin' about! talk to your pharmacist or doctor... (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? mypl

also with us, former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschner. ten any more guidance on what we might be able to expect this week? >> reporter: we do know they're able to turn themselves in 24/7. if there are people that don't want to be seen by the news outlet and media cameras out there, they might choose a time closer to 2:00 in the morning than perhaps 2:00 in the afternoon. we're watching and we do know the talks are ongoing, in terms of what would surrender look like, how will the week play out. just within the past hour or so, we saw attorneys for ken cheesebro, and those discussions for the defense attorneys for the 19 co-defendants are happening with the d.a.'s office. we don't know again what those conversations look like. we don't know what the guardrails around the surrender will be. we do know that all 19 are expected to turn themselves in at the fulton county jail. that's in accordance with the d.a. who has her input along with the judge who is also presiding over this. of course, chris, the question then will become what sort of exp

attorney, msnbc legal analyst, our friend glenn kirschner.rump, right? and his flag was waved in front of him and with the brain cells of a bull he went charging through the red flag. but there's a piece about how she will respond and react, and i'm interested in hearing you weigh in on that. >> i think we're at a point now where this is sort of integrity of the criminal justice system 101, where at some point i do think the system of justice has to assert itself, as difficult as it might be, as unprecedented as it might be to sort of protect, preserve and promote the integrity of the system. you know, when i saw i think it was a repost by donald trump where he said that judge chutkan admitted to engaging in election interference against donald trump, he is now falsely putting words in her mouth. and nicolle, can't you just hear it sort of bouncing around in maga world? well, you know, i read that judge chutkan admitted engaging in election interference against donald trump. i could even see jurors, starting jury selection, during voir dire c

joining me now are glenn kirschner, msnbc legal analyst.mer federal prosecutor donna edwards, contributor and former democratic representative of maryland. and eddie law junior, msnbc political analyst and professor of african american studies at princeton university. great to have all three of you with us. brian, let me start with you, first of, all get reaction to breaking news on two fronts. you have mark meadows, mike pence effectively and now openly contradicting trump on a key part of his defense strategy. which was that he declassified everything there. and on the record publicly, i imagine also privately to the legal authorities to jack smith saying. we don't know of any standing order to declassify documents. and these are the two i would argue, two closest people in his decision-making process if you will. and certainly, if he gave that order you would think that the vice president and mark meadows would know about it. >> this highlights the importance of the fact. that the trial witnesses of donald trump when prosecutors can fina

we were down at the federal courthouse and glenn kirschner was with me.his is airing for the first time right now as we discuss trump's defense team telegraphing plans to tie to get the case tossed. >> john lauro seemed to be arguing that they are going to say the whole thing should be thrown out before trial because the president's actions at the time were taking care that he faithfully execute the laws which is an obligation and not trying to break the law. does that get them out of going to trial? >> no, it will get them a pretrial hearing and judge chutkan will decide whether he was faithfully executing the laws of the united states or breaking the laws. i think what we see in that four-count indictment is a pretty clear vision based on the evidence that he was violating the laws of the united states. so he'll have a hearing on this issue and i suspect judge chutkan will deny the defense motion to toss the case. >> that was glenn's rapid-fire take. that was just moments after we walked out. it does overlap with some of what mr. meadows said on the sta

we're gonna head back to glenn kirschner who's just joining us. glenn, what about this timeline of monday at five pm? do you think that's enough time? what do you think the response will be? >> you know, erin, i have a feeling the response from the defense team will be we agree with the protective order. the protective order is designed to protect the witnesses once the prosecutors turn over the discovery, the evidence to donald trump. to prevent them from disseminating that information, to prevent donald trump from talking about it in his rallies or posting it on his social mediaplform. i fully expect the defense will agree to the protective order because they want the discovery of the evidence as quickly as they can get it. what i'll be interested to see is if they address the threat that the client is posted not just 24 hours after the judge could -- put him on notice but that could be a violation of his conditions of release. i have a feeling they might sidestep that. if they do, they might separate their clients claim that this is about politi

conversation on this historic indictment with msnbc legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, glenn kirschner, will also share to carry with me outside that court just a couple of days ago. glenn, good to see you. once again. so, a couple of things i want to take through here and kind of clarify things for folks that are watching this. first and foremost, right? what exactly is smith's team, the special counsel asking for here with a protective order? >> so, yasmin, they are asking for donald trump not to be permitted to disseminate any of the information that the prosecutors are about to turn over. witness identities, witness statements, grand jury transcripts, because, you know, you can envision donald trump becoming pretty darn upset when he reads about the testimony that witnesses have been giving against him in the grand jury including many republican witnesses. so, the prosecutors want to make sure he says nothing, he posts nothing, that would endanger those witnesses and what they added into the mix, in requesting this protective order, is judge, look what he just posted. if you go aft

ken dilanian, glenn kirschner, thanks to you. after a short break, we're going to talk about the other big case from washington to atlanta. the latest on the other major court case, this one involving donald trump's former chief of staff, mark meadows, and the efforts to overturn the 2020 election. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds on msnbc. that's why they choose t-mobile for business. mlb partners with t-mobile to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. aaa relies on t-mobile's network to stay connected nationwide, so they can help get their members back on the road. and we're helping pano ai innovate, to stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. >>> in an

attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor, glenn kirschner, also a former federal prosecutor and frank louise e, the former fbi assistant director for counter intelligence. i really want to start with going around the horn and getting everyone's reaction to what was in this indictment. peter, what stood out to you? >> look, i think that this indictment more than the other two gets to the heart of the matter, right. the last two were important subjects, hush money, classified documents, national secrets. this is an indictment that goes through the heart of the question of american democracy, charges the former president of the united states for the first time while in office and in order to subvert an election that he had lost. according to prosecutors, it was fueled by lies and animated by -- one of the things really striking about the indictment is jack smith went straight after the defense that precedent -- that is defendants have used, that he supposedly has a great faith desire to find out the truth about the election, and he was genuinely pursuing's claims. ja

the tamar ends glenn kirschner, thank you both for joining me. i really appreciate it. up next, symone sanders goes one-on-one with republican presidential candidates and political outsider the vic ramaswamy. symone has -- >> my viewers, if i'm not willing to sit across the table from folks like you, i'm not ready to sit across the table from jinping. >> gee has something to say about that comparison. we'll also hear his strategy going in to the first republican primary debate, and why he's drawing up a connection between the maui fire and dei and it should have's. but first, richard louis has today's other top news stories. >> hey charles, a very good day to you. an update for you on that rare hurricane, hillary. the satellite map showing the category three storm turning off mexico's pacific coast. the national weather service says that this historic system could bring quote, catastrophic and life-threatening flooding to southern california through early next week. now, live to compose st. louis at the tip of the baja peninsula, which is on that map, it's straight in h

and former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner who, luckiest, was at the d. c. for trump's hearing today. meanwhile, glenn, we discuss this for a while, you said the first of all of this, she doesn't come to play. this woman means business. so tell us what the hearing was like. >> yes, you know, stuff, i was a little surprised when she came out and sort of opened with her believe that neither jack smith's proposed trial date of january 2nd, 2024, nor the defenses trial date of april 2026 were appropriate trial dates. and i have to tell you, i kind of felt like she might do the salomone thing and maybe split the difference. but i don't think donald trump 's lawyer, john laura, it did himself any favors because judge chutkan pressed him several times saying we are not going to go to trial in 2026, so give me an alternate trial date that is more realistic, that will give you enough time to prepare but that won't set this trial so far off in the future. and he steadfastly refused to do it. judges don't like to be told no. what he ended up saying was, and i can pretty

joining me now are two former prosecutors, glenn kirschner and renato mariotti. thank you both for being here. i'll start with you, glenn. just to reiterate the point. one cannot appeal the start date of the trial, right? i'm not a lawyer, but even i knew that. please explain why. >> no, it's not -- any kind of a final ruling, an appealable ruling. the judge has, i would say, complete discretion, not just broad discretion, but complete discretion in managing her calendar and setting reasonable trial dates, which is precisely what judge chutkan did today. i'll tell you, joy, i was in the courtroom. the defense counsel john lauro did not do himself any favors. he was a bomb thrower. it sounded like he was making arguments to donald trump's base, not to the judge, when the judge implored him, give me a reasonable alternative proposal. he said, and i think i can quote him because i was furiously taking notes. he said, we can't do it in anything less than the time we have proposed. and she had had about enough, and she said, well, then, you just bought yourself a march

and our friend glenn kushner -- glenn kirschner said it best last week, judge tanya chutkan, she doesn'te saw that tonight when she wasted no time responding at nine pm on monday night, ordering to see both sides and getting them to agree on a time for a hearing on this protective order, on or before this friday. all this after the former president spent the weekend attacking the judge personally and the special counsel on his social media platform. former doj official mary mccord says all of this is just part of trump strategy. >> i think this is really a delay tactic. mr. trump is now the defendant in an ongoing criminal proceeding. and they are treating this as though he is still just an ordinary citizen, who whose rights cannot be restricted at all. and that is not just the way it works in the criminal law, rightly or wrongly, the law provides a showing of the requisite predicate cause. there could be restrictions on people that can be restrictions on their liberty. many, many defendants in criminal cases and up detained pre trial. there can be restrictions on their speech. and i thi

our friend glenn kirschner who knows the judge, judge chutkan he was overseeing this, when he described as a serious woman who does not play around. what should we expect? >> that's right well luck of the draw is that ending up with a judge whose only purpose on multiplications granby on what the justice department's request on january six, there were multiple cases where the governments at home detention is fine, maybe some probation, she said no there's gonna be some incarceration time involved with this. that's not to say that she hasn't gone in other cases, january six, cases she hasn't from the book at everyone, she just individually looked at these cases altogether. but she takes january 6th extremely seriously. she's very vocal about that from the bench as our number of other judges who handle these more than 1000 cases a day work their way through the system. at this point basically 300 people have been sentenced to periods of incarceration. as i said over 1000 people have been arrested, but there's a lot more ahead in these cases as well, that's one thing it's gonna be very int

. >> and she in the words of glenn kirschner, these judges have come to play. the fact they're like we're going to set the trial date in three weeks indicative of people not wasting time. can we talk about lawyers for one moment? i don't know if you noticed the reporting evan corcoran was in the courtroom today apparently still affiliated somehow with donald trump and his defense team. evan corcoran for people who have forgotten, is sort of almost like a star witness in the mar-a-lago case from which he had to recuse himself. do you think it's odd that trump is keeping evan corcoran in the mix, as it were, given how -- >> wouldn't you want to? it's not clear he was acting as defense counsel. he's not sitting at defense counsel table, but he's there as sort of a quasi-supporter in the same way boris epstein. >> you think keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. >> wouldn't you want to? >> i think defendant trump is playing any angle he can even people who have obviously given up negative information about him, and that goes to a theme in all this. the

joining me now for the legal of all of this, glenn kirschner. msnbc legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, and host of the justice matters podcast. glenn, because justice matters, let's start with mark meadows's motion to dismiss. filed late last night by him he is claiming the -- clause gives him immunity from prosecution. he preview that defense in the notice of removal sent to the federal judge in the northern district of georgia in august 28th through an evidentiary hearing. i wanted to get your top thoughts on what you think are the chances of his success claiming immunity from prosecution because he was a federal official. >> you know why, katy? i think his chances of success are slim to none with a slim fading fast. i do not think the supremacy clause can be so stretched and contorted to say, okay, the constitution provides that the president and his criminal associates can attempt to reverse, corruptly reverse, the results of a presidential election because the constitution takes precedence over state law. that makes no sense. at its c

joyce vance and glenn kirschner are so with us. thanks again for the two of you for staying. good to see you, thank you for being with us. it is kind of remarkable, one thing that comes up clearly in the january 6th indictment is not as clear in the georgia indictment, is that there was a moment at which some of trump's lawyers were coming up with ways to protect his interest in case any of these recounts or appeals actually went in his favor. in case wisconsin or pennsylvania or georgia or arizona, someone figured out that donald trump, you are entitled to these votes and maybe one. and then something happened, it changed into them understanding very clearly that that was not going to happen in any state into a scheme to get him elected despite the fact that they knew he won. it turned into illegality. how does not work for a lawyer when you realize that the advice you are giving your client is now actually going to be a crime. what happens? >> well, it depends, there are a lot of ways that lawyers can run afoul. in this case, i want to distinguish two different kinds of pro

the glenn kirschner is a former federal prosecutor and host of the podcast that -- i ankush khardori,er for new york magazine. glenn, i just wanted to start with these kind of warnings from the judge. that is very strong language. we've heard it in some of these other cases. what can she actually do? and what do you think she should do, if he violates? it >> i don't think fani willis owns a pair of kid gloves. have a feeling if donald trump violates these conditions, how could he not, jen? he can't post or re-post anything that might be intimidating of a witness. not just a week ago he did something that if he did it now, it would be prohibited by this order. he said, look, i know that former lieutenant governor, jeff duncan, is about to testify before the grand jury, quote, he shouldn't. >> he has already violated, essentially. >> he would. have >> he would have. >> interesting, that actually constitutes a violation of georgia state law. that could be used next week by judge chutkan up the street, to say you did violate a convention that had been set for you. >> this is coming next m

former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner explains what the eight willis's move actually means. >> fanis has now said we are ready to go to trial, the speedy trial law is what it is and we are prepared to give all 19 codefendants a speedy trial, and we would love to have them set for trial on october 23rd. what i predict, ali, is that is going to result in a chorus of voices from many of these codefendants saying, not so fast, we are not demanding a speedy trial. in fact, we are prepared to waive our speedy trial rights, and we're going to need far more time to prepare. >> a chorus of voices singing some special song. sydney powell, one of trump's other campaign lawyers, has also filed for a speedy trial. today, she pleaded not guilty, waving an arraignment on september 6th. meanwhile, mark meadows request to move his case to federal court is now in the hands of a judge who is asking for more information before making any decision. a judge has asked fani willis's team for more details. both sides have until five pm thursday to respond. with that, let's get smarter with help of our leado

now glenn kirschner, and paul butler, coming up, there were some major developments this week in the classified documents criminal case against donald trump. involving trump employee, for, who could be a very important witness for jack smith and the government against donald trump. that's next. (dad) we got our subaru forester wilderness to discover all of the places that make us feel something more. (vo) subaru is the national park foundation's largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. inez, let me ask you, you're using head and shoulders, right? only when i see flakes. then i switch back to my regular shampoo you should use it every wash, otherwise the flakes will come back. he's right, you know. is that tiny troy? the ingredients in head and shoulders keep the microbes that cause flakes at bay. microbes, really? they're always on your scalp...little rascals... but good news, there's no itchiness, dryness or flakes down here! i love tiny troy. he's the best. make every wash count! little help, please. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. ( ♪♪ ) the first fda-approve

. >> and in the words of glenn kirschner, these judges come into play. the fact that there suddenly trailed it in three, weeks that's indicative of people not wasting time. >> can we pull about lawyers? i don't know if you noticed, the reporting that evan corcoran was in the courtroom today. apparently still affiliated somehow with donald trump and his defense team. evan corcoran, for people who forgotten, is sort of almost like a star witness in the mar-a-lago case from what she had to recuse himself. do you think it's odd that trump is keeping evan corcoran in the mix, as it were, given how, wouldn't you want to keep him in the false -- >> defending you? >> it's not clear who was acting in the defense council. he was not sitting at the table. he is there as a quasi-supporter in the same way warren epstein is a quasi-supporter. >> do you think this is key pure friends close? >> defendant trump is playing any angle he can, even people who have obviously given out negative information about him, he wants to keep them close. you mentioned, the predicate un

and as a glenn kirschner, a colleague and friend of the show writes for msnbc.com, here we have trumpicly telling a witness who he knew was scheduled to testify before a grand jury investigating his alleged crimes, that the witness should not testify. cutting right to the chase, this is trump taking a page out of the witness tampering for dummies playbook. georgia state law criminalizes attempts to influence witnesses, specifically georgia code 16 ten 93, makes it unlawful to knowingly use intimidation or threats to persuade or attempt to persuade another to influence delay or prevent the person's testimony in an official proceeding. so now, trump adds to an already distinguished criminal resume, by allegedly attempting to influence a witness in apparent violation of both state and the conditions of his pre trial release. as grand christian writes, this is only the beginning of a convoluted and lengthy process of justice for donald trump. those involved have a responsibility to apply the law equally, without fear or favor, otherwise his brazen floating of conventions, not to mention l

. >> glenn kirschner, thank you for that. >>> on top of the whirlwind day for legal news, peter navarro was in court today for a hearing related to his refusal to cooperate with the january 6th select committee. navarro told the judge trump made it clear he did not want him to cooperate with the committee. the judge questioned why his defense couldn't present the actual words trump used, instead of just his impression of the conversation saying, quote, that is pretty weak sauce. >>> we're following breaking news out of north carolina, an emergency alert has been sent out by unc chapel hill warning of an armed and dangerous person on or near campus. we want to show you these pictures. they of course show law enforcement on the scene. the school is warning all students to shelter in place, stay inside, and stay away from windows. we're going to keep a close eye on this situation as it unfolds, and we will have any updates for you as we get them. >>> with donald trump's d.c. trial now just a little more than six months away, what are the biggest challenges in the months ahead for jack smit

now glenn kirschner, and paul butler, coming up, there were some major developments this week in the classified documents criminal case against donald trump. involving trump employee, for, who could be a very important witness for jack smith and the government against donald trump. that's next. but a little metamucil everyday can help. metamucil's psyllium fiber gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down and also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so you can feel lighter and more energetic. lighten everyday the metamucil way. feel less sluggish & weighed down after just 14 days. sign up for the 2 week challenge at metamucil.com ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. and, they felt drama

. >> andrew kirtsman, jay tom morgan, glenn kirschner, what a fascinating conversation, thank you so much for being on the program. >>> next, a stunning story of survival, a lahaina resident joins us with unbelievable stories, first of surviving the story and now the aftermath and the ongoing struggle to get help on the island. >>> first, a heartbreaking story of loss, among the 106 people killed in the wildfires, 68-year-old franklin, who died protecting his friend's dog, a golden retriever named sam. authorities say they found the two in the backseat of a car with trejoy lie lying on top of sam, an attempt to shield the dog who also died. his family remembering him today as a huge animal lover, saying quote, god took a really good man. we'll be right back. took a rea man. we'll be right back. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 i

joining me now is glenn kirschner, former federal prosecutor, andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former member of robert mueller's special counsel investigation. and a former senior investigative counsel to the january 6th select committee. thank you all for being here. this was an extraordinary day. i think we can all agree about that. glenn, you were there. you were in the courtroom, i think you were in the overflow. give us sort of a sense and a feel for how all of this played out. >> you know, for the most part, it was a relatively routine arraignment, but for the fact that a former president of the united states was being arraigned for trying to overthrough our democracy, not entirely ordinary there. i will tell you, joy, the first thing that caught my attention was even before the hearing started, i saw evan corcoran walk in. i don't know if there's been much talk about that, but evan corcoran is donald trump's lawyer who was compelled to testify about and in a very real sense, against donald trump because he was the one who infamously certified that all documents had b

. >> glenn kirschner last night on this show, pointing out the absurdity of the idea that donald trump is just like a persecuted black teenager in the 1930s. as the right pushes a laughably racist narrative that being an accused felon gives trump street cred with the blacks. >> also tonight, tennessee state representative justin jones is again silenced by republican house leaders for passionately fighting for gun reform, after a mass murder at a nashville school. representative jones joins me tonight. >>> but we begin tonight with a weird trend that we have noticed coming out of maga republican world. this is a party, after all, whose base is overwhelmingly the same demographic that gets its news from fox, so let's say not super diverse. but since trump came along in 2016, they keep insisting that because of him, republicanism is booming among black people. despite there being no evidence of that. as donald trump's troubles have gotten more intense, republicans are leaning into a new twist on this narrative. namely that trump being an accused felon has broadened his appeal with black v

assistant attorney glenn kirschner joins us and andrew weissman, legal analyst, and, joe, i will say,t to the experts but i'm curious, just your overall takeaway from reading this indictment compared to the three others behind it? >> well, it is certainly far more sweeping than jack smith's january 6th indictment which you sensed he tried to make that as tight and narrowed and focused as possible. that is not the case in georgia. you get a sense that fani willis understands with so many co-defendants, this is going to be a long trial and she wanted to make sure that fulton county gets their arms around all of it. certainly a sweeping indictment. i will say, too, again, following up on what andy mccarthy wrote yesterday in "the new york post," this georgia indictment is a bit different from jack smith's january 6th indictment, because in that indictment he got some existing statutes and did his best to make the fact pattern fit in to those charges. we'll see if a jury agrees with him that he did that in a way that would lead to a conviction of donald trump. here, though, john, you have

attorney glenn kirschner is with us. ave the two glenns, take us through the understanding of what will exactly happen tomorrow. >> well, from our understanding trump will fly down from bedminster, will arrive some time before this 4:00 date, and it will be actually very similar to what happened in miami. the question and we haven't really been able to get this answered is whether or not he'll even be subjected to the per fungtatory electronic fingerprinting done in miami. and as we were told in miami they have plenty of pictures of him. the question then becomes what will this magistrate do and what will be asked of this magistrate? interestingly enough in miami the magistrate goodman decided to throw a monkey wrench into this sort of agreement between the defense and prosecution over whether or not trump would be able to communicate with witnesses in the case who still worked in an and around him on this protective detail, in his political operation, on his personal staff. now we have these six unindicted coconspirators

solicitor general neal katyal, glenn kirschner and katie phang.l, let's start with the arraignment and what happens next. did we get a glimpse yesterday into how team trump is expecting to handle the case? >> yeah, absolutely. i think we did in two senses, one is the delay tactics that they want to use, one of trump's attorneys said outside the courtroom that jack smith has had three and a half years to investigate this case, so they should get three and a half years. it doesn't quite work that way. i mean, there's several problems with that. i mean, one is three and a half years ago was like january of 2020, well before the election. so nobody was investigating trump at that point in time. but, you know, more generally, there is no such symmetry rule and in deed the system would grind to a halt if there was. i don't think that these delay tactics are going to work. they might work better in florida in the stolen documents case where you have classified information and things like that, but not here. the other thing i think we heard a lot of yeste

attorney glenn kirschner is back and political analyst david jolly is here. i have to start with a simple question. mark meadows has the presence of mind to say, wuh-woe, take that out of my intro. do you know if he does anything about that classified document or is he offering it up because jack smith got an early copy of his book draft? >> here's what we know. first of all, the description in that draft of the book is quite stark. it talks about the war plan being there on the desk. it says that trump founded -- had just found it in his old files. old files, i guess, in boxes, and that he knew if he could declassify it, it would, quote, win my case. so it's very clear that we're talking about a document that was not only classified but was known by trump to be classified and to be right there on the couch with people who clearly had no right at that point to have any access to classified documents. but mark meadows, there's another very interesting part of what we know he has told investigators, and that is that when the national archives first requested th

. >> former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner. thank you. i want to show my colleagues something i have not seen. ready do something we have never seen before? >> it's like a real -- >> i will say, you have not been to my house in western massachusetts, but this is my art. that is everywhere. i have a courtroom sketch of andrew weissmann. >> people didn't think you were a nerd, they just locked it in now. >> the only thing in my life that's different from what you see when i'm doing is the news is i go fishing. i cuddle up with courtroom sketches. >> i didn't know you could acquire them. >> yeah. >> she's a collector. >> i need some. >> that's it. >> this is the moment where the sketch artist, who is fantastic, where he captured the moment at which trump stood and faced the judge and said not guilty. stephanie ruhle joins us at the table. >> i don't have any courtroom sketches, but i'm here. >> are you asking? >> i would like a photo shoot with andrew weissmann. >> there's going to be some charity auction coming up. we will work that out. le