where the church is today, cos as you know, i interviewed an influential bishop in the church, rose hudson—wilkind at what went on in the past, "the church has changed," and to quote her memorable phrase, "if you sneeze now in the church, and it looks "like a safeguarding problem, you are out". that's her confident assertion. but that is not the assertion of victims and survivors, i can tell you that for sure. and i can also say that, actually, what the church needs to do is look quite openly at what happened with the independent safeguarding board. we're almost out of time but i need to ask you this last question, then. if you are still so appalled and so lacking in trust in the most senior church leadership, can you still call yourself a practising, believing church of england christian? well, my faith is personal to me. these people are... crosstalk. has this rocked your faith? it has — well, it has rocked my faith slightly, but i've met victims and survivors who are no longer part of the faith because of it. but for me, the church needs to be more compassionate and needs to be very honest abo