there were high hopes for scott walker as he got in the republican race back then. president trump ended upbeating him. let's listen to this from scott walker, the former governor of wisconsin. >> i think governor desantis in particular should learn from the mistakes i made. because you have a bold record doesn't mean you're going to win. you have to be as bold or bolder with what you're going to do. >> and walker deserve as lot of credit for what he did here. he won three special elections which had to recall him in 4 1/2 years. showed it could be done. it's good advice and advice that these candidates tonight the eight of them can take in a different way than walker himself could have leveraged because trump won't be on the stage. so impossible to get around or under trump when he's on the stage. he has a equip for everything. he had center stage. he's not here. as i wrote on foxnews.com this morning, how these eight candidates deal with the absent president. he's not here but high in the polls, is important. they should explain which policies in the america first

listen, i think scott walker's wrong on this. trump only has one way to go if he shows up, is down.f somebody lands a glove on him during the debate, he goes down. i think at this point in the campaign he's smart for staying away, he'll do some counter-programming tomorrow, he's going to be in georgia on thursday. and i'm not so sure that anybody's going to be talking about the debate past tomorrow night. so, i think the former governor's wrong. >> maybe not with trump reporting to the fulton county jail on thursday for sure. so, david axelrod, you are so familiar with primary debates. you prepared then senator obama for more than 20 of them in 2008. but it was a very different situation. what would you say to your candidate if they were, you know, tens and tens of points ahead of their closest competitor and they're thinking of not going to a debate? >> well, this is so unlike any other circumstance. he's not just tens and tens ahead. he's almost 40 points ahead. and no one's ever lost the nomination with that -- no one has ever been under four separate indictments either, and that

the former governor scott walker is with us now. president of young america's foundation.lo to you, sir. thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. a frozen tundra kind of day. >> i'm sure aaron rodgers misses that. i want to show the screen going back to the last 6 or 7 elections on the statewide level. bush and gore were close back in 2000. barack obama was an easy winner in 2008 and 2012. in 2016 and in 2020, you are about 20,000 votes in each race that determines the outcome in this state. >> it is. remember hillary clinton lost the primary in 2016 to bernie sanders and never came back. boy did they regret that. lost by 23,000 votes. the same margin four years later. this is not one of the key states it may be the state that determines the next president. >> dana: you ran for president and been here before. now you get to be an observer. any advice for people up there? two former governors, three former governors. >> totally forget about all the pundits or the d.c. consultants. that was my biggest mistake on first stage as well eight years ago. i was worked up listening to

let's bring in abc news contributor sarah isge former governor scott walker.n these charges? >> this is really going to be quite different than the florida indictment that we'd seen earlier or the new york indictment. this is going to be all about donald trump's state of mind. his defense is going to be really simple. "yep, all of these people told me that the election fraud allegations weren't true, but i didn't believe them, i believe still to this day the election is stolen, and therefore i could not have had corrupt intent," which is something all these charges are going to require the department of justice to prove. >> byron: quick follow-up. my family's from the south. as they say in the south, will that dog hunt? that kind of defense? >> that's going to be up to the jury, largely. the department of justice certainly laid out all the times that donald trump was told that these allegations weren't true, from the attorney general to his white house lawyers to individual state officials in each of these states. the problem was that you have his coconspirato

they experienced eight years of proto maga extremism from scott walker.y experienced the attacks on workers' rights, the attacks on reproductive freedom, the attacks on public schools and teachers, the attacks on democracy and voting rights, and they rejected that kind of politics. they rejected scott walker in 2018, and now because of governor evers, senator baldwin, because of president harris and vice president biden and vice president harris, because of attorney general call, wisconsin has been and continues to be on the right track. and wisconsinites are experiencing record low unemployment and rising wages and the possibility of a restoration and an expansion of freedom and democracy in the state that all of us wisconsinites love. that is what wisconsinites want to see more of, that is what they are voting for, and that is what they will not see on display at the republican debate tonight. the record is crystal clear. wisconsinites do not want to go backwards to maga extremism. they do not want a future in which their freedoms are ripped away. they

that's why you have seen jeb bush and scott walker fail and why governor desantis will win.e the comeback kid and he's going to be like bill clinton and become the next president. what you're going to see is governor desantis solidify his position in second place. he has to show he can take a punch and show the american people what he's done in florida, what he's going to do for the country and what he's going to do for their pocket books. he's an energetic executive that is ready to take on biden. ron desantis will do that. >> neil: to your point, he hasn't yet. he's shuffling people and sinks more and more in the polls as a result even with that. that could change. you're right. plenty of time for things to change. but he's going to be a target tonight. he's the number 1 polling guy tonight. they're all gunning for him. word is that chris christie particularly will try to marco rubio him. what do you think of that? >> the entire field, ron desantis has had more negative ad monday including seven dwarfs on stage tonight. the left and the establishment knows he will do what

scott walker was the lead candidate. this was summer of 2015. scott walker was at 19%. moved forward to january, he's out of the race. he was out the race by september. ted cruz managed to skim just by the hair of his chine chin chin, she has, past donald trump to take iowa. so how much do you think changes between now and then? >> i think the difference now is you have president trump who has been president, who is running again, who has a solid base. i've seen it in my own district. i've seen it across the country from poll after poll after poll. his numbers are increasing while people like desantis' numbers are decreasing. if you're one of the other candidates, you want the numbers to be shifting in your direction as you go to january in the iowa caucuses. there's not much time between now and january to move the numbers. he's winning in iowa. i think it was by 25 points in iowa. 30, 40 points in some of the other polls. that will be hard ground for some of these candidates to make up in that short period of time. >> martha: they're seeing that on the ground for sure

scott walker knew it for awhile. in 2016, he was the guy to beat and considered an inevitable nominee. that was then. the former governor with us. america's foundation president now. governor, always great to have you. i do remember that there was much follow-through and excitement about your candidacy and given what you had done and surviving recall elections and the like that you were a favorite son and then you weren't. what happened? >> we made the mistake that i'd advise any candidates to do, don't listen to the consultants. they told me to run on my record, stay focused on that. your record, whatever it is, whether it's governor desantis or whatever it is, your record gets you on the stage. then you have to make the stage to the voters about what you're going to do and how it will make their lives better. it's different than the head-to-head debate. you have to stand out, be bold and be believable. >> neil: the problem or the challenge for governor desantis, governor walker, he too has been addressing that reco

with us now from milwaukee is former wisconsin governor scott walker. it's good to see you. having your friends over to play at your house in wisconsin. look, you have been on the presidential debate stage -- >> well, only if you elbow them when you're playing them one on woen. >> you've been on the debate stage many times in the presidential ring. what warning do you have for those candidates as they take that stage. what have you learned? >> yeah, the biggest thing i learned from having been at that first debate and a month later that cnn did at the reagan library was that forget about the consultants. forget about the d.c. insiders and forget about the pundits and be as bold as you were to get you there in the first place if you're a governor, senator, business person, do the thing that got you on this platform. be as bold or bolder than you've ever been before. may mistake was listening to consultants who told me to run on my record. that's not enough. you have to capture the attention, and the millions more that will be watching at home. >> don't listen to your consult

i remind people in 2008, we had giuliana come into thousand 12 rick perry, in 2016 joe bush or scott walker game to be played, and especially in the state of iowa. stuart: this notion that someone who doesn't carry that legal baggage could win the whole thing. these polls don't bear that out. maybe something bigger at play here, national frustration with the system as it is. the system is going after donald trump, and they carry certain clout and they do register, the former president, i wonder if he's nominated, if he is the guy, will a lot of those republicans who support him now, about on election day, is that your fear? >> i don't know. i think it is a risk. 2,024 is the most important election of our lifetime. we say that every two years which i happen to believe this time it is really true. i think the former president presents the biggest risk of losing to the democrat and i don't believe it will be president biden, it will be michelle obama or governor newsom or someone else. neil: sorry to jump on you but who intrigues you the most? desantis getting attention, not as much, some of

long and there's nothing on the books yet to convince me that he is a whole lot different from scott walkeralso a fabulous resume in search of a really good candidate. >> in a newsletter that i mentioned i know on twitter and mother jones there's been ongoing debate about who might be worse from an authoritarian point of view that it's trump and has a coke or pepsi type of question that they are different and present different types of threats but i think looking particularly at the last couple of days, the last week or two the number of authoritarian bills to restrain academic freedoms and who knows what else. now that's a danger because if he succeeds there's the example to others across america. i don't know if it helps in the presidential campaign. but you can'try do until you actually try, but i think that still he is the face of the authoritarian competency in america and should be taken with a great deal of seriousness whether or not he decides to run in 2024. it was more like coke and rc .ola they were waving donald trump flags. it's hard for me to imagine storming the capital in ta

former wisconsin governor scott walker, a one time trump rival, believes that that is a mistake. >> when i sit next to him at that first debate eight years ago in cleveland, this is a guy who was commanding, he took over the debate and i think it is a missed opportunity for him not to come here to milwaukee and try to take charge again. >> reporter: as walker sees it, trump is not only competing in the primary, he also could start trying to win over some of the voters who once supported him. >> if they see him fighting not for the sake of fighting but fighting for them, fighting for their families, fighting for their schools, fighting for their economic survive ability, then i think that he starts to pull some of the voters back. >> reporter: carolyn would be in that camp. when we first met, she was torn. >> i get it why people don't like trump. >> reporter: she ultimately voted for trump. now she's intent on sizing up the field. is there anyone who stands out to you or a few people? >> i'm still learning about all of them. i've been really interested in desantis. haley. i'm interested i

money, like nikki haley, you really need something to happen, or you're going to wind up like scott walkering in front. heck, he led iowa pulls in the start of the summer in 16 in the caucus, and in even make it a christmas. so, there are a lot of high stakes for these contenders to get in the race now. i agree with robert about that. >> robert, do you think trump believes he doesn't need to be on the debate stage, because he doesn't need to be shoulder to shoulder with second right candidates? or do you think he's afraid to be on equal footing, i. e., he only likes to do interviews in rooms filled with adoring trump fans, or speak at rallies that are packed with maga? >> well, i agree with mike that there's probably a part, probably a large part of trump 's ego that wants to be there, and wants to be on that stage and wants to be the center of that stage. i think though that he's smart enough to understand that right now, he's so far ahead, that he'd be a pincushion in this debate. so, why not skip this debate and let your next closest opponent, that quite frankly has had at best uneven t

eight years later, something like that thereabouts. 2015, scott walker, the governor of wisconsin, atnald trump trailed him by two points at 17%. way down the list at this point was ted cruz sitting here at 4%. how did it turn out? ted cruz at 27%, donald trump 24. walker wasn't on the board at the end when the iowa caucuses concluded. where are we today? 2023 in august, donald trump a commanding lead at 44%, trailing him by 24 points is ron desantis. does he make a move in the caucus come january 15th? or does the move come perhaps from one of the others right now that are listed in single digits? look at history and see how it turns out. we won't know until we get there. >> dana: it's so interesting. marc thiessen is a fox news contributor and joins us. put up on the board for everybody call for number one, iowa state headlines are trump dominant. desantis in the -- clashing with desantis. in a way, desantis wanted to make it look like a two-man race. the headlines look like that, mark, out of iowa. >> if you look at all those people on the board that bill just had, none of them won

>> i think ron desantis and scott walker and jeb bush territory, pleading campaign dollars, firing staffing he's a flawed candidate. you dig into the facts and look at the polling, gop voters by 30 point margin they trust donald trump going into general election. so they have a lot of really good reason to believe that. a harvard poll shows trump up five on joe biden, and the "new york times" poll, locked at 43-43 trump and biden, but trump is gaining steam with black voters, hispanic voters, bad sign for biden, and a rust belt poll, wisconsin, pennsylvania, ohio and michigan, in that poll donald trump is beating joe biden by seven points and ron desantis is losing to joe biden by three points. so again, donald trump is not only trounsing in the gop primary by 37 points, 30 to 40 points in other polls, but obviously clearly the best choice to go against joe biden in 2024. >> sandra: desantis in his own words on trump. >> too many voters who just aren't going to vote for him going forward. the polls that come out that put i beat biden in georgia, trump doesn't. i beat biden soundly in ari

weeking a about the super pact telling him to act or behave or carry on in the debate in london, scott walker governor of wisconsin. he had a big lead here several yearsing a in the republican primary race. when he rolled into cleveland, ohio, in august of 2015, he was positioned on the stage right next to donald trump. he told us earlier today that his idea, stuart, was to go in with the advice that his super pact and consultants were giving him. that's the game he played and got blown out of the water because trump stood next to him and relied on no one but himself. i said how could you do that if you're a successful governor. why not talk about your record and be free and open about it? he said i made the mistake and it was a big one. they should not do the same tonight. the stage is set, 9:00 eastern. you can watch it everywhere by the way. dana and i'll will have the pregame at 8:30, kicking it off here from wisconsin, stuart. stuart: the pregame. i like the sound of that. bill, we will be watching. guaranteed. thanks for being on the show this morning. always appreciate it. >> terrific,

we caught up with former wisconsin governor, scott walker.one of the few people who's debated donald trump in the 2016 campaign at the first debate in cleveland. he said he's been offering advice to these candidates. >> i said the only person who changes your opinion about donald trump is donald trump. if they waste time attacking him, they're doing just that. wasting time. but if they come out and have a breakthrough moment and have passion, credibility, a bold agenda that gets people worked up, creates a buzz coming out of the debate, then, not saying it happens, but at least it gives them a fighting chance. >> and wolf, tonight, we are also getting a sense of what the candidates will actually look like. what their order will be like on stage. not surprisingly, florida governor ron desantis will be at the center of this stage. he, of course, has the potential most opportunity here to really solidify his role as the second tier candidate, if you will. or the biggest risks perhaps because all the arrows also may be on him. also, ramaswami wil

important in 2016, scott walker then the governor had softened the ground here.conomic growth and blue collar acentric ideals could make a play in wisconsin. directs democracy demands this kind of accountability and argument and access to the candidates on wednesday. so good for fox news for covering that and then participating. but the former president will be hovering. he is dominating in the polls. i think the argument from his camp will be that nothing will change much after this debate. i think some things will change. i think vivek ramaswamy had the best line of the ones that you played there. which is this is your opportunity to look into the camera and introduce yourself to america. if you are going to attack donald trump, you're going to alienate his voters. if you attack him, are you doing it on his legal woes, his personality, policies? i want specifics on the economy. people in this country and the state are suffering. and they don't deserve soundbites. they deserve substance. what is your economic plan. your five or 10 point economic plan to get us o

he's more tim pawlenty and scott walker than anything else.'re seeing is someone as they go out on the campaign trail, has a very, very awkward way in which he communicates with voters. the more voters meet him, the less they like him. they like him on paper a little bit, but they don't like him when they meet him. one of the things has to be said about this direction of the campaign. you're not going to out-racism or out-xenophobia donald trump. a lot of his ultra-conservative, far, far right-leaning policies he's trying to put forth, these culture wars, you're simply not going to outdo donald trump. he has that part of the market cornered. so now he's left flailing. i don't see him making it to the university of florida/florida state football game in november in the fall. november, december. i think this campaign is seeing its last legs and that's what jonathan martin was talking about. >> interesting. scott, an anti-trump republican superpac is out with a new ad highlighting the mounting legal problems for the former president. listen to th

we have bill melugin in milwaukee, former republican governor scott walker with some advice for all of

. >> ainsley: pete, i was listening to scott walker he said they have to do more than just paulk abouthey can't just run on their record. they all have records except for vivek. people didn't know who he was until a couple months ago. >> steve: the rich guy. >> ainsley: remember when donald trump took the stage in the beginning and he said build the wall. he said drain the swamp. so what could one of these candidates say or several of these candidates say to stand out when it comes to the economy and immigration and when it comes to crime? >> well, that's where i think a vivek ramaswamy has been willing to say interesting things that are much different than the field it. takes a lot of guts to stand on that stage. especially the way trump did. remember when they said raise your hand if you will support the nominee if you won't and he is the only one. >> brian: i don't remember that at all. [laughter] >> pete: that is not an easy thing to do to stand alone and then stand confidently in that position when there might be boos or there might be pushback amongst the crowd. you have to feel

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at this point in the cycle, in 2016 scott walker was leading the pack.16 and donald trump was polling in the single digits. so there's a lot of runway left for the republican field to figure it out but i agree with hogan. at this point donald trump is the presumptive nominee on the republican side, clearly with the enthusiasm that you're seeing among base republicans. and we're likely headed to that 2020 rematch. cheryl: i'm not going to use the word fun. i'm not going to let you off the hooks with the democrats, kevin. a new report finds that president biden's team thinks the abortion issue puts a new state in play for his re-election. he writes the aides are moving to expand the map. they believe north carolina is a pick-up opportunity and no longer democratic fool's gold. how do you respond to this report? >> it's an interesting take. abortion is clearly an animating issue after the end of roe versus wade. we saw it in play heavily in the midterms and the wisconsin election for the judicial nominee on the supreme court, most recently in ohio as you me

i also thought scott walker had a great line. don't do what i did.ot to the stage and everybody was talking about me. and i talked about my record. your record gets you to the stage. but when you get to the stage, you have to tell the people what you are going to do for them. so that, i think, walters good advice he is talking to ron desantis about that few hours of light to meet the people having a good time. trying to get yesterday for the brewer's game or just trying to enjoy a night out on a tuesday welcome to wisconsin welcome the next president of the united states. for now about the g.o.p. debate. hours away, thousands of opinions about what will be the number one story and number one candidate and it's time to get some of them. let's go. ♪ that's a big deal to have the debate here. i wish trump would have came. >> can you feel the buzz in the city. >> yes. >> you won't be watching. >> no, i won't be watching. >> is it the alternative programming is it laverne and shirley. >> i expect everybody to jump on trump. >> how do you want to hear from

you don't just wait and wait and wait and then drop9 out like what happened to scott walker.spending time on the ground in iowa, time on the ground in new hampshire, he's doing small events, he's working hard, he's running an energetic campaign focused on positivity and what he's going to do for the country. and i think, ultimately, that's why you see trump under 50% in iowa, urn 50% in new hampshire, is because of ron desantis. and i think that, look, there's been -- the amount of money with every other candidate running for president is less than what's been spent against ron desantis in terms of negative ads thus far, and he's still holding in second place. without trump's name id, i think he's actually doing fairly well and beating the spread, and i look for conservatives to coalesce around ron desantis in the iowa and new hampshire the more they get to know him. ashley: we have the first debate coming up on fox news. what do you expect from desantis in is he going to be force. is he going to be aggressive or just talk about his issues? >> well, look, i think that, you kn

in 2015, the it government was scott walker. of the polls, and he dropped so quickly that he was out of the race by september. >> i remember that. >>. i don't think we're there yet with ron desantis. i think there are a lot of people who want him to be good and want him to take on donald trump. i guess he's starting to. i think as he pointed out, that was weak sauce if you're going to do it. maybe they're starting to warm up to that. he has been helping donald trump all the way along. >> is the only real chance that donald trump implode,s, that the weight of the indictments gets him to stop campaigning or breaks the fever in the republican party. are either one of those things even likely? >> it's unlikely, although i actually fear talking to folks that is part of the strategy here, hoping that happens. i don't think he can pay attention to politics over the last eight years. i think that's realistic. people always complain about politics, and they ask why do candidates need to go negative. why are they running attack ads. going

one of the mistakes i think scott walker made is he didn't make changes soon enough.nor desantis is retuning his campaign so he goes into the fall with the campaign team he wants, and i think that's what a good leader does, is they make corrections. hay make corrections and pine tune. and i think that's -- fine tune. that's what he's doing here. to me, it's kind of a nothing burger. look, the fox news debate is really opening day for the fall campaign. cheryl: well, and we've got two weeks to go, and that is where it's going to happen. we'll see if donald trump shows up. we don't know yet. sir, thank you very much, it's good to have you on the show, appreciate it. >> thank you. thanks. cheryl: all right. well, let's head back to the issue of the biden family and those bank records. we talked about it a few moments ago. they expose a web of shell companies with obscure names. republicans claim they are nothing more than fronts. senior congressional correspondent chad pergram is live on capitol hill with a closer look at that. >> reporter: cheryl, good afternoon. there

where sort wisconsin governor scott walker, governor thank you for joining us. aishah: we are still following the horrible wildfires in hawaii that had become the deadliest in our country for more than 100 years but authorities are still looking for missing people. we are going to have a live report from maui next. to help keep you moving. uniquely designed with carbsteady to help manage blood sugar response. glucerna, bring on the day. oh booking.com, ♪ i'm going to somewhere, anywhere. ♪ ♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. proven, full-spectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia pat

there is nothing on the books, nothing yet to convince me thatt he's a whole lot different from scott walker who was also -- a fabulous resumÉ and search of a really good candidate. [laughter] >> you know, i'll briefly in a newsletter that i wrote recently did i mention i have a newsletter? i wrote a piece called desantis war on freedom, and i know that on twitter and in our snapchat mother jones ongoing debate about who might be worse from authoritarian point of view than -- trump or desantis, and it really is a coke or pepsi type of question here. they're different, and they present different types of threats. but i think looking at desantis particular lay in the last couple of days last week or two i don't know if i haven't checked in the last few hours number of authoritarian bills that he's -- you know, introduced in florida to restrain academic freedoms media freedoms and who knows what else. you know shows that he, you know, wants to be the orban of america. now, that's a threat that's a danger because if he succeeds in that just many florida -- it provides an example to kari larry ki

jeb bush and scott walker, scott walker. >> he collapsed. rick perry collapsed.. i think this will be 50 million watchinging maybe a few more. they'll be paying attention to it and they're in the beginning of the decision-making process. tonight there's a much more. in the end republicans to not want joe biden p. republicans do want a replacement. but electability is less important. >> you mean democrats. >> yes. >> you said republicans. michelle is waiting in the wings, frank. that's what i'm hearing. that's going to happen. he can't back out now. >> here comes the issue. joe biden will not be running as an 80-year-old. he's 86 years oil. you're not voting for him today. you're voting for him for after the election? democrats couldn't pass over the vice president, could they? that would be very difficult for those who would say it would be tough to pass over to michelle obama. >> ask the governor of california. he's launching for campaign not for pretty now but president four years from now. ask someone like cory booker or the governor of michigan, gretchen whit

there nothing on the books and nothing yet to convince me that he's a whole lot different from scott walker who was also a fabulous resume in search of a really good candidate. you know i'll see briefly in a newsletter that i wrote recently did i mention i have a newsletter of i wrote a piece called war on freedom and i know that on twitter and in our slack chat at mother jones, there's been ongoing debate who might be worse. you, from an authoritarian point of view than trump or desantis. and it really is a coke or pepsi type question here, right. they're different and they present different types of threats. but i think looking at desantis in the last couple of days, last week or two, i don't know if i haven't checked in the last few hours. the number of bills that he's, you know, introduced in florida to restrain academic freedoms, media freedoms and who knows what else, you know, shows that he, you know, wants to be the orban of america now. that's a threat. that's a danger. because if he succeeds in that just in it, it provides an example to governor carey lake and to others across ame

you look at where we were 2015 at this time for the national election, the number one person was scott walkerr three was rudy giuliani and i think by the end of the second primary, they were all gone and so we're way ahead of a presidential election. in my observation, america is pretty volatile. you never quite know exactly what's going to happen except there's always a lot of drama. >> a lot of drama for sure and i think we have more of that to come steve, back in february of 2019 i got to go with you to m.i.t. where you made a huge donation for artificial intelligence and beefing things up because you were concerned what china was doing with artificial intelligence and the potential for the united states to fall behind you wanted to make sure we didn't do that where are we in this race right now and what do you think of all the developments in a.i. this year >> well, what i would say at the start is the call on focusing on artificial intelligence, you know, starting with myself in 2015 and doing that large m.i.t. donation to start their new college of computing and doing something aligned