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Sep 27, 2023
09/23
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there is my pal kevin hassett. kevin, you have new numbers.o be middle out and lower up. looks like middle down and lower down. you tell us, please. >> right, larry. i know you've been busy ou there at the reagan library, so you didn't notice the intelligence reports today that suggested "bidenomics" probably escaped from a lab in wuhan. larry: okay. got it. >> i'm sorry. but the fact is, that the poverty right now is skyrocketing in the u.s. because the media can't cover the economy straight up because there is a democrat in the white house, nobody is talking about it. but if you look at the numbers, poverty per families that are headed by females, single fee mails, the poverty rate in 2021 was 11 percent. in 2022, after a year of the inflation, it jumped to 22%. it doubled. for african-americans, it weren't from 12 percent to 18%. nor fate any of americans went from 11% -- looking at big swaths of america 25% of people are in poverty and nobody is talking about it. we have a poverty emergency. it is really important we get people to understa
there is my pal kevin hassett. kevin, you have new numbers.o be middle out and lower up. looks like middle down and lower down. you tell us, please. >> right, larry. i know you've been busy ou there at the reagan library, so you didn't notice the intelligence reports today that suggested "bidenomics" probably escaped from a lab in wuhan. larry: okay. got it. >> i'm sorry. but the fact is, that the poverty right now is skyrocketing in the u.s. because the media can't cover...
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Sep 19, 2023
09/23
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we'll talk about it with the great kevin hassett.s backing the uaw on wage demands. we'll give elon musk and xi xinping the last laugh, xi xinping. gee whiz, he didn't show up at the u.n., did he? anyway liz joins us along with deroy murdoch. stick around with "kudlow". the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ this is your season to smile -- to gather together and discover the moments that matter, to jump into the fun and join in the celebration. to help get you ready, your aspen dental team is celebrating 25 years of affordable care with an epic anniversary savings event. right now, new patients without insurance get a free full exam and x-rays. plus, everyone can get 20% off their treatment plan. but hurry, because while the season won't last, the memories you make together will. aspen dental. book today. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. ( ♪ ) the first fda-approved rsv vaccine. arexvy is used to prev
we'll talk about it with the great kevin hassett.s backing the uaw on wage demands. we'll give elon musk and xi xinping the last laugh, xi xinping. gee whiz, he didn't show up at the u.n., did he? anyway liz joins us along with deroy murdoch. stick around with "kudlow". the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ this is your season to smile -- to gather...
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better than kevin hassett. folks up next on kudlow, the demodemocrats are so desperate o stop trump in 2024 that they're breaking every law. they're breaking laws left and right. by the way, they want to keep them off the ballot. just uniformed all the secretaries of state in the democratic states trying to keep them off the bout if they can't do it. we'll talk about it with former -- with former missouri attorney general and current missouri u.s. senator mr. eric schmidt when kudlow returns. folks, here aerod's a hint, hano gas powered cars. hang on, they'll be worth a fortune. after advil. feeling better? on top of the worlddddd!!! before advil. advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. when pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liqui-gels. ♪ is it possible to fall in love with your home... ...before you even step inside? ♪ discover the magnolia home james hardie collection. available now in siding colors, styles and textures. curated by joanna gaines. ♪ explore endless design possibilities. t
better than kevin hassett. folks up next on kudlow, the demodemocrats are so desperate o stop trump in 2024 that they're breaking every law. they're breaking laws left and right. by the way, they want to keep them off the ballot. just uniformed all the secretaries of state in the democratic states trying to keep them off the bout if they can't do it. we'll talk about it with former -- with former missouri attorney general and current missouri u.s. senator mr. eric schmidt when kudlow returns....
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Sep 20, 2023
09/23
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kevin hassett we appreciate it.iving color liz peek syndicated color and fox news contributor and deroy murdock senior fellow the london policy research at a fox news contributor. what does the oil thing do i get to go to do deroy murdock first, this is basic necessity. including the fertilizer funes, part, these are all kitchen table issues, what this is due to the race to the presidential race which appears to be trump versus biden bus assume that for one moment. >> joe biden seems to be trapped in spira sl self-destruction mortgagor, began oil prices and inflatiogeis in will follow. inflationary he gets off of his back. yesterday in new mexico same block off the thousands of acres, number drilling. number drillinope drg in alaskas pushed up oil prices for $70 a barrel a month ago now they'red pushing 95. applone go inflation and this is based on the religion that oil is evil there good to skateboard, backpack, syringes, shower curtain, it's not about c driving electric vehicles or gas vehicles we have oil and b e
kevin hassett we appreciate it.iving color liz peek syndicated color and fox news contributor and deroy murdock senior fellow the london policy research at a fox news contributor. what does the oil thing do i get to go to do deroy murdock first, this is basic necessity. including the fertilizer funes, part, these are all kitchen table issues, what this is due to the race to the presidential race which appears to be trump versus biden bus assume that for one moment. >> joe biden seems to...
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Sep 19, 2023
09/23
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larry: kevin hassett thank you, we appreciate it. >> thank you.. what is this oil thing do? deroy. this is a basic necessity. including the fertilizer, food, part. these are kitchen table issues, what does this do to the race to presidential race? which appears to be trump versus biden. let's just assume that. >> joe biden seems to be trapped in a spiral of self destruction. ease yeste. >>ez yesterday was way to get away from this is drill. yesterday he was in new mexico saying let's block off thousands of acres no no more drilling there and he said no more drilling in alaska, pushing oil up. and this is all based on a religion that oil is evil. you know there is your skateboard your backpack and syringe and shower curtain. we have oil in everything, he is fighting that, he is putting himself in bad shape for next year. larry: i have a list of at least 200 items. you can dial up the riff that i started with. liz peek. with all that happening, here comes the uaw, i may not agree with everything they want, but they have been clobbered by increasing
larry: kevin hassett thank you, we appreciate it. >> thank you.. what is this oil thing do? deroy. this is a basic necessity. including the fertilizer, food, part. these are kitchen table issues, what does this do to the race to presidential race? which appears to be trump versus biden. let's just assume that. >> joe biden seems to be trapped in a spiral of self destruction. ease yeste. >>ez yesterday was way to get away from this is drill. yesterday he was in new mexico...
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Sep 14, 2023
09/23
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larry: kevin hassett, tyler good body, larry kudlow corporate tax cuts.middle income people and lower income people would be the biggest beneficiaries of the corporate tax cuts because more profitable companies after tax are going to have more money for wages and more money to hire and all the dopes on the left do not understand that because they hate profits, right, and they hate corporations anyway and hate capitalism but i don't even need to put that in. so kevin hassett would be a 4,000-dollar real increase in incomes, that is exactly what happened, revised higher with the latest census report, it was 5000. today with latest numbers through '22 biden is down four thousand bucks from pre-pandemic. it is not a good snow. aquila trying to give us the hook, in terms of the economy itself, ej, economy itself we're floating in middle ground, recession hasn't come, boom hasn't come, what is your take on that? >> i think we'll continue to have this stagnation for a while and inflation as well. there is your recipe for stagflation but as soon as the yield curv
larry: kevin hassett, tyler good body, larry kudlow corporate tax cuts.middle income people and lower income people would be the biggest beneficiaries of the corporate tax cuts because more profitable companies after tax are going to have more money for wages and more money to hire and all the dopes on the left do not understand that because they hate profits, right, and they hate corporations anyway and hate capitalism but i don't even need to put that in. so kevin hassett would be a...
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Sep 15, 2023
09/23
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lot and has been following the uaw very, very closely in recent weeks, my dear friend the great kevin hassettormer chair of the council of economic advisers in the trump administration, and author of the most important book of the 211st century, it's call "the drift: stopping america's slide to socialism." kevin, i'm not saying all the uaw demands are perfect or correct, but i think they have some pretty good points when you take a look at biden-flation and biden climates. that's all i'm saying. >> right. you know, i agree 100%, larry. but i disagree with their asks, because i think they're too small. you might think some of them are too large. here's the way with i think about the problem. i've written a lot about this, as you know, at "national review." if you have a job making a car with an internal combustion engine or you work in a factory that makes spark plugs and supplies people that make engines, then in the next 5-6 years or, put it another way, if you're 55 or younger with a job like that, your job is gone by the end of the next biden administration. and then they could sort of say
lot and has been following the uaw very, very closely in recent weeks, my dear friend the great kevin hassettormer chair of the council of economic advisers in the trump administration, and author of the most important book of the 211st century, it's call "the drift: stopping america's slide to socialism." kevin, i'm not saying all the uaw demands are perfect or correct, but i think they have some pretty good points when you take a look at biden-flation and biden climates. that's all...
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Sep 14, 2023
09/23
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kevin hassett argued there would be a $4000 increase in real incomes.ly what happened with the latest census report. today, with the latest numbers, biden is down 4000 bucks from pre-pandemic. it is not a good show. i want to ask you, ej, in terms of the economy itself, what is the direction. we are floating in this middleground. the boom has not come. what is your take on that? >> i think we will continue to have this stagnation for a while there is a recipe for stagflation. as soon as that starts to normalize, that is a big indicator for not just the recession coming, but it is coming very soon. the inverted yield curve, yes it is a good indicator, but as soon as it starts to normalize, that is when we know it's right around the corner. >> bidenomics up and down. >> tomorrow. a year from now. >> i'm sad to say. >> bond yields will be lower. inflation is coming down. growth is coming down. because the market knows 10 years out we are not getting 4% real gdp growth. we will be lucky to get 2% because we have spent ourselves -- >> deregulate. >> we don't
kevin hassett argued there would be a $4000 increase in real incomes.ly what happened with the latest census report. today, with the latest numbers, biden is down 4000 bucks from pre-pandemic. it is not a good show. i want to ask you, ej, in terms of the economy itself, what is the direction. we are floating in this middleground. the boom has not come. what is your take on that? >> i think we will continue to have this stagnation for a while there is a recipe for stagflation. as soon as...
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every month that is a huge increase, the cost of housing for people. >> of its going to bring in kevin hassetter said with interest rate hitting 8% kevin to you even if 30-year most popular mortgage hits 8% she doesn't think a substantial fall in prices. >> right. it is something that we're seeing although you know, housing market has significantly cooled for sure, but prices are staying up i think, in part because there is not a lot of supply the bottom line though thinking back to entering labor force i warning about reading this data when people come into labor force you get a mixed shift in data because lower wage people in labor force you look at increase in waims for people have jobs yesterday today and places at atlanta fed they calculate that the wage data ring at about same rate as price inflation might be better doesn't look like it, in the picture -- so, i think that one reason why people are continuing to pliu houses people have had jobs are seeing wage increases. >> you know becky again going back attorneys general numbers that we got, here the average earnings month-over-month it
every month that is a huge increase, the cost of housing for people. >> of its going to bring in kevin hassetter said with interest rate hitting 8% kevin to you even if 30-year most popular mortgage hits 8% she doesn't think a substantial fall in prices. >> right. it is something that we're seeing although you know, housing market has significantly cooled for sure, but prices are staying up i think, in part because there is not a lot of supply the bottom line though thinking back to...
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Sep 22, 2023
09/23
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look who's here and former council of economic adviser kevin hassett.ning us on this friday night. thank you for this, wall street pros like bill cassioppiman warn of more interest rate shocks and consumer lows going up and rapidly rising bond rates and blaming massive oversupply of tsunami of treasuries and you see this and this isn't good for bidenomics. remember that. >> i'm recovering from contemplating of old people in washington and close to home. bidenomics created inflation and goes back to 2019, they set back in nancy pelosi's budget and more than we thought in 2019 and that's caused inflation and the fed is behind the curve by inflation and we saw the latest august numbers and inflation is accelerating again and the markets started to adjust. you know, i think that if you look at john taylor's rule, which tells you what the interest rate out to be and fight inflation. it's depending on assumption of 6 and 7% for the federal funds rate and there's a lot of ways to go and what that means is the 10-year treasury and mortgages are going up too and
look who's here and former council of economic adviser kevin hassett.ning us on this friday night. thank you for this, wall street pros like bill cassioppiman warn of more interest rate shocks and consumer lows going up and rapidly rising bond rates and blaming massive oversupply of tsunami of treasuries and you see this and this isn't good for bidenomics. remember that. >> i'm recovering from contemplating of old people in washington and close to home. bidenomics created inflation and...
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Sep 29, 2023
09/23
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kevin hassett following that, the former white house chief economist. ct no matter how this ends with the united auto workers. that i will have copycat strikes down the root. the inflationary effort is what? >> the inflationary impact is it create as spiral. so what is going on, one of the key asks is a cost of living adjustment, the cola that we used to talk about in the 70s and the 80s, which was a part of every negotiation. if your wages adjust with inflation in real time, then you don't end up having a big decline in your standard of living, which is what most americans are seeing right now. you talk about the uaw strike. there's 66,000 people striking in vegas right now against the casinos. a big healthcare strike in california. the bureau of la bore statistics reports on how many days are lost because of work stoppages. four million in august. the reason why people are doing this, they have not been able to keep up with inflation. the problem you've highlighted on your show since inflation started, once the wages start chases the prices back up, th
kevin hassett following that, the former white house chief economist. ct no matter how this ends with the united auto workers. that i will have copycat strikes down the root. the inflationary effort is what? >> the inflationary impact is it create as spiral. so what is going on, one of the key asks is a cost of living adjustment, the cola that we used to talk about in the 70s and the 80s, which was a part of every negotiation. if your wages adjust with inflation in real time, then you...
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Sep 15, 2023
09/23
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joining us now to react, biden's claims one by one debufrnthsd kevin hassett former trump care on the advisors. kevin, he claims americans won't be losing jobs with bidenomics and all they're going to have is hope. okay. what's the truth there? >> right. well, the oath ruth is, first of all, it's a choice between bidenomics and the truth, okay? but, excuse me, bidenomics is basically right now a slight of hand that's similar to the coverup of hunter biden. we just found out from the grenz us there's a humanitarians crisis in america that in 2021 11% of single family moms, families, were below the poverty line and we found out it's doubled, it's 22% of americans. so bidenomics is destroying lives all around the country because he's created inflation and real wages are declining. that same sense us report says if you go right before the pandemic, the incomes, real incomes for the median families are down $4,000. $4,000 per family, and that's what biden's cost us and he's out there basically spreading lies about the economy. it's really quite stud being. >> laura: the read median wages u
joining us now to react, biden's claims one by one debufrnthsd kevin hassett former trump care on the advisors. kevin, he claims americans won't be losing jobs with bidenomics and all they're going to have is hope. okay. what's the truth there? >> right. well, the oath ruth is, first of all, it's a choice between bidenomics and the truth, okay? but, excuse me, bidenomics is basically right now a slight of hand that's similar to the coverup of hunter biden. we just found out from the grenz...
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Sep 18, 2023
09/23
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let me fill in blanks with articles by kevin hassett and ej antone.ng important points about the failure and untruths regarding bidenomics. president biden brags about manufacturing. actual production year-on-year basis has dropped 5 consecutive months. plus the ism manufacturing surveys been under 50 for 10 straight months. that is a clear future recession signal. workers real range ofs declined -- wages declined 3%. duringed by own presidency they rose by 7 purse under president trump. with latest respect level of inflation gone up 17% grocery 20%. and energy 38%. gasoline 52%. all during the biden years. president biden keeps bragging he is cutting the budget deficit by 1.7 trillion. which is his infamous bottomless pinnochio, that fiscal year, 23, which ends this month, the deficit is expected to exceed 2 trillion. go figure biden blames trump tax cut, but former president set the record straight, pointing out that stack ref -- tax revenues went up even as tax rates went down. federal spending under joe biden hovering near 25% of gdp . compared to
let me fill in blanks with articles by kevin hassett and ej antone.ng important points about the failure and untruths regarding bidenomics. president biden brags about manufacturing. actual production year-on-year basis has dropped 5 consecutive months. plus the ism manufacturing surveys been under 50 for 10 straight months. that is a clear future recession signal. workers real range ofs declined -- wages declined 3%. duringed by own presidency they rose by 7 purse under president trump. with...
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let's get the read kevin hassett. great to see you, thank you for being here. being driven by the high interest rates necessary to fighting the inflation president biden's policies have given us and the way to think about it is if you look at the s&p 500 the average debt to debt plus equity ratio is 40% plus interest rates are 10% than they are paying 4% of equity interest every year and that is what profits are. if interest rates go from 5% to 10% that 0 out their profits and something we are seeing, the bottom of the distribution of people who had to borrow a lot took on a lot of debt because the covid shutdowns are hitting the wall because they have to refinance of that and are doing it at high levels. david: there are other issues, inflation, crime, smash and grab going on, and regulations coming in green energy programs particularly on trucking. we had the vice president of the trucking company talking about the potential costs in the future of some green energy programs particularly on diesel fuel which fuels most of the trucks in the united states. let m
let's get the read kevin hassett. great to see you, thank you for being here. being driven by the high interest rates necessary to fighting the inflation president biden's policies have given us and the way to think about it is if you look at the s&p 500 the average debt to debt plus equity ratio is 40% plus interest rates are 10% than they are paying 4% of equity interest every year and that is what profits are. if interest rates go from 5% to 10% that 0 out their profits and something we...
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Sep 21, 2023
09/23
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kevin hassett said it the other night, i think that stock market is sniffing that out, and it will be a big problem. any ways. thank you for your comments on immigration. on oil, on stocks, i have to think of something, next time you are on we'll delve deeper to society. >> let's talk about watches, watches. we have to have -- west coast time in l.a., network time on other wrist that is the plan. kudlow: a long time ago, a great, man, a fabulous human being peter grace. i don't know if you remember peter, he ran grace and company, i met him in the reagan administration, he was in charge of reforming the budget. he used to wear peter grace was worth a lot of money, in shipping businesses, we more watches on both hands. that is first time i saw that. >> i'm i do together again, i'm bringing it back to you. >> are the best. >> west coast and east coast. kudlow: the best of the best, kevin o'leary thank you, sir. >> thank you take care. kudlow: coming up 24 billion for ukraine. on top of everything else, is -- what is our mission in ukraine? do we have a plan or diplomacy, i don't know we
kevin hassett said it the other night, i think that stock market is sniffing that out, and it will be a big problem. any ways. thank you for your comments on immigration. on oil, on stocks, i have to think of something, next time you are on we'll delve deeper to society. >> let's talk about watches, watches. we have to have -- west coast time in l.a., network time on other wrist that is the plan. kudlow: a long time ago, a great, man, a fabulous human being peter grace. i don't know if...
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Sep 21, 2023
09/23
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kevin hassett said it the other night. i said it for a while. that may be the minimum. think the stock market starting to sniff that out and it will be a big problem thank you for comments on immigration, oil. next time you are on we'll delve deeper into society. >> let's talk about watches, larry, let's talk about watches. west coast time l.a., new york time on the other wrist. that's the plan. larry: a long time ago a great businessman, fabulous human being named peter grace, i don't know if you remember peter grays who ran grace and company, i met him in the reagan administration because he was in charge of reforming the budget and accounting, he, peter graves was obviously worth a lot of money in the shipping business and whatever. he wore watches on both hands. that is the first time i ever saw it. >> i'm doing it again. i'm bringing it back, i'm bringing it back. east coast, west coast. larry: you're the best of the best. kevin o'leary, thank you, sir, really, really appreciate it. >> take care, thanks. larry: all right, folks, coming up another 24 approximately d
kevin hassett said it the other night. i said it for a while. that may be the minimum. think the stock market starting to sniff that out and it will be a big problem thank you for comments on immigration, oil. next time you are on we'll delve deeper into society. >> let's talk about watches, larry, let's talk about watches. west coast time l.a., new york time on the other wrist. that's the plan. larry: a long time ago a great businessman, fabulous human being named peter grace, i don't...
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Sep 14, 2023
09/23
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we've had people -- well, here, kevin hassett said you could lose 500,000 jobs in the car business. >they're saying -- larry: incredible. >> that shouldn't all, you know, if we have a big society move that we want to push electric cars, the union workers are saying why should we bear that cost? that should be spread around. if everybody's going to benefit because we're going to save the climate or whatever, then why should it only be union workers bear the cost? larry: you've also been writing, so the census bureau numbers came out. family income's down, median income's down, poverty, a very high level. what do you make of that? that was, what was that, yesterday? >> i know. it seems like it was out a long time ago. a lot's happened. larry: the point is, let's see, ten -- like the obama era, if i recall. you wrote it sub-2010? >> yeah, 2010, the last time we saw real median wages go down by this much, household earnings, then was the second year of the obama administration. 2010. the reason i hike that is because they went down again in 2022, the sec year of the biden administration.
we've had people -- well, here, kevin hassett said you could lose 500,000 jobs in the car business. >they're saying -- larry: incredible. >> that shouldn't all, you know, if we have a big society move that we want to push electric cars, the union workers are saying why should we bear that cost? that should be spread around. if everybody's going to benefit because we're going to save the climate or whatever, then why should it only be union workers bear the cost? larry: you've also been...
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Sep 18, 2023
09/23
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interview but let me fill in some blanks especially with recent articles by former cea chairs kevin hassett and tyler goodspeed and e.j. antoni from the heritage foundation all make important points about the absolute failure and the untruths regarding "bidenomics." president joe biden brags about manufacturing. actual production year own year basis has dropped five consecutive months. plus the ism manufacturing survey has been under 50 for 10 straight months. that's a clear future recession signal. meanwhile workers real wages have declined nearly 3% during the biden presidency. they rose by 7% under president trump. with the latest cpi report the level of inflation has gone up nearly 17%. groceries 20%, energy 38%, gasoline 52%, all during the biden years. president biden keeps bragging that he is cutting the budget deficit by $1.7 trillion which is his infamous bottomless pinocchio. in this fiscal year alone, fiscal 23 which ends this month, the deficit is expected to exceed $2 trillion. so go figure. biden keeps blaming trump's tax cuts for higher deficits and debts but here in the nbc
interview but let me fill in some blanks especially with recent articles by former cea chairs kevin hassett and tyler goodspeed and e.j. antoni from the heritage foundation all make important points about the absolute failure and the untruths regarding "bidenomics." president joe biden brags about manufacturing. actual production year own year basis has dropped five consecutive months. plus the ism manufacturing survey has been under 50 for 10 straight months. that's a clear future...
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Sep 13, 2023
09/23
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we've had people, here, kevin hassett, former cea chair you could lose 500,000 jobs in the car businessing is -- larry: that's incredible. >> that shouldn't, if we have a big society move we want to push electric cars, union workers are saying why should we bear that cost? this should be spread around if everybody will benefit we'll save the climate or whatever, why should it only be union workers bear the cost of that? larry: you've also been writing, census bureau numbers came out, family income is down, median income has come down, poverty high level. was that just yesterday? >> seems it was out a long time ago. a lot's happened. larry: the point is, let's see, like the obama era as i recall. >> right. larry: you wrote this up in 2010. >> 2010 the last time we saw wages go down, real median wages go down by this much, household earnings was the second year of the obama administration, 2010. the reason i like that is because they went down again in 2022, the second year of the biden administration. so biden was vice president last time we saw wages go down by this much. one of the thi
we've had people, here, kevin hassett, former cea chair you could lose 500,000 jobs in the car businessing is -- larry: that's incredible. >> that shouldn't, if we have a big society move we want to push electric cars, union workers are saying why should we bear that cost? this should be spread around if everybody will benefit we'll save the climate or whatever, why should it only be union workers bear the cost of that? larry: you've also been writing, census bureau numbers came out,...
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Sep 26, 2023
09/23
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and it's going to destroy, you know, kevin hassett has a number, up to 4-500,000 jobs, okay?er man hours go into an electric car compared to a gas-powered car. so whatever the wages and benefits from this, you know, if they make a deal the next whatever weeks, months, whatever that is, the fact remains it is biden's extremist policies on climate that is going to destroy working folks and unions. david: and meanwhile, larry, with we have the whole destruction of the auto industry itself as a result of these ev policies. i mean, ford, it's no accident that this battery factory e in michigan is embroiled in all this china stuff the, but then you look at what ford is trying to sell, and people aren't buying. they're not buying in the united states. and, by the way, they're not buying in china. ford's share of the market of car market in coo china which they had great hopes for particularly among evs has gone way down. is so the industrial policy of the biden administration on green energy is failing, isn't it fair to say that? >> yeah, i think industrial policy always fails. but
and it's going to destroy, you know, kevin hassett has a number, up to 4-500,000 jobs, okay?er man hours go into an electric car compared to a gas-powered car. so whatever the wages and benefits from this, you know, if they make a deal the next whatever weeks, months, whatever that is, the fact remains it is biden's extremist policies on climate that is going to destroy working folks and unions. david: and meanwhile, larry, with we have the whole destruction of the auto industry itself as a...