former congressman jane harmon, a longtime member of the house intelligence committee joins me afterreak to talk about what she believes the level of u.s. involvement should be in the war unfolding in israel. we are back in a moment. ack in a moment. powerful cold and flu symptom relief with a honey-licious taste. because life doesn't stop for a cold. dayquil honey, the daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever, honey-licious, power through your day, medicine. >> we continue to fall the ongoing conflict in israel's prime minister netanyahu launches what he calls the offensive phase of this war. joining me now is jane harmon, former congressman from california who also served as the ranking member of the house intelligence committee for four years after 9/11. now the chair of the freedom house board of trustees. congresswoman, thank you for taking the time this afternoon. you've watched and ben in congress and biden leadership roles during so many conflicts. you've also watched conflicts flare between israel and hamas before. we're all trying to make sense of whether the last 36 h

joining us now is a former democratic representative from california, jane harmon. ames served as a ranking member of the house intelligence committee for four years after 9/11. she's the chair on the national defense strategy. jane, good to see you, again, thank you for being with us. this once a pickle, this once a tough one for the region and for america. >> it sure isn't let me add a few things. first of all, history does not repeat itself. that -- 50 years ago, i was in labor having my first son, happy birthday, brian, who's now 50, and talking to the -- about the yom kippur war. this war is different, i've got to say. it is more of a surprise on the territory of israel from gaza. i cannot believe that our intelligence and their intelligence had no clue about all these forces amassing. this is air, land, and see. it's a swarm attack, it obviously swarmed the iron dome, which could not pick it up. too many missiles coming in at the same time. et cetera. and it's beyond the sophistication of the gazans. i just want to weigh into the conversation, you are just havi

former california congresswoman, jane harmon, chair of the commission of national defense strategy. and douglas frankly, presidential historian and professor of history at rice university. thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. kevin, i'm starting with you. two american hostages have been ripped least. most of the hostages are alive. is this why two weeks after the hamas terrorist attack on israel, the expected ground invasion has yet to happen? >> i don't think so. i think the reason for that is that the diplomacy -- [inaudible] to call for calm. to call for some sort of reason, more targeted, invasion in explanation, rather than this kind of sherman to the sea version of -- that we were warned about in the beginning. i think it's absolutely remarkable that every day goes by and it hasn't happened yet. i'm in the camp of the more realistic thinking, hostages -- the hostage scenario is some of the worst outcome of any kind of conflict. i've dealt with a lot of them in my time as a defense reporter, but what, saving hostages is a different level of concern, then saving

joining us is the chair of the freedom house board of trustees, jane harmon, ranking member of the intelligencethank you so much for joining us. let's talk about the solution to this. i have had a number of guests on who said there's no military solution to what has been happening in israel for the past 75 years, and it's obviously getting even worse. what is the diplomatic solution? >> well, >> let me say, first, as a mother and a grandmother, my heart goes out to natalia. i can't even imagine. it's so heartbreaking. there's no excuse for any side any group to kill innocent civilians, period. no excuse. i condemn, obviously this abhorrent operation in israel, i condemn hamas and anyone associated with hamas, and i know freedom house does, too. i think it's a combination for the way out. israel has a right to defend itself, but i also think it's be stiff right now to think a few steps ahead, and to have a comprehensive strategy, going into gaza, which it seems israel will do. i'm not a military strategist, but to end up with huge israeli and other casualties and innocents killed may or may not

. >> i want to start by reading that jane harmon wrote . they said that we understand that her almost shorthand. while spending more on defense doesn't guarantee we will deter chinain and rollback russian aggression, spending less will almost certainly fail. but it is also true that buying incrementally more of the same mix of weapons and technology won't produce a force azeri to meet the challenges posed by an increasingly aggressive china and russia. more alone isn't better. better is better. mckenzie, do you think that we can meet what you think are the defense needs of the united sc states with the kind of big picture budget that mike is talking about annually over the next decade or not? >> thank you for taking me back to grad school. how much is enough? we had to read the book. i think it was two years of my life spent answering that question. the point, the answer to your question and the answer to the op-ed is if we lived in a world where you could clean sheet the defense budget, we would have more than enough money. we don't clean

harmonizes with the effects they want. in 2010, one of the great denial senators, senator jane spinoff of oklahoma bill and igloo on them all. in d.c. because there had been a heavy snowfall. and he putut a sign on top the said al gore's a new home, and then honk if you love global warming. so the story my book tells is how we went from that period to the igloo. [applause] one of the things i'm always curious about when we look at history is what lessons we can take a special lessons that it doesn't seem requite learned yet. david, give us a brief example of a lesson we should take away from prior environmental movements. >> listen to scientists. i also -- [applause] in 1977 the most famous warning that came in the '70s and it's because of the warnings that i began reading about when i was assigned to write this book, the most famous warning from the '70s was in 1979. .. in 1979, the academy of national sciences did the first big report. it was 270 pages. around half the length of this. they said we have to start acting now and cannot wait until we are sure. because it takes a whole generation to change energy sources. for