matt: let's bring in torsten slok. thank you for coming on the show. i first want to get your take on the refunding and the amount of deficit and debt we have, what does it look like to you? >> an important backdrop is we're still trying to figure out why rates have gone up so much basically since july. matt: janet yellen says it is not a concern. >> you see the average size of treasury auctions next year will be more than 20% higher. someone needs to buy 20% more cross the whole curve in terms of the options that are going to come through and that is a substantial increase in supply. the worry has been maybe rates have not only gone up because economic data has been holding up but maybe they have gone up because there are these increased worries about the supply being so significantly increased over the next 12 months. matt: i was talking with a professor at duke a little bit earlier and he was saying interest rate -- debt servicing costs are going to be $900 billion next year, more than we spend on the military. it seems to me unsustainable yet no on

that is torsten slok over at apollo.nuts when they say this is about apple, i am dressed like dan ives so i have to be careful. you run a company for growth at the top line or a company for growth down the income statement? jonathan: it is difficult going into next year, that is for sure. if we get an economic downturn what to the numbers look like in 12 months? tom: i think by the middle of january i will be able to announce that my theme for 2024 is the sustaining of the magnificent seven. i think that is where we are heading. jonathan: let's turn to the bond market. two year, 10 year, 30 year. yields lower in a big way from where we were last month. we have gone from just above 4.40 on the 10 year, down two or three basis points. tons of feedback about the consortium we are putting together by mohamed el-erian's queen park rangers as they support the idea of us putting forward a consortium. tom: thanksgiving, norwich's route like where the pilgrims came from, they are playing at norwich, we could go and feel the pilgr

larry adam, torsten slok, and amy wu silverman. i am leaving.hether we are seeing more consumer weakness, we could be and we should expect to see some weakening go on after this period with a drawdown of savings. tom: joanne feeney giving us a view on the equity market. lots going on. we welcome all of you on the edge of travel. lisa abramowicz and tom keene. without question jobless claims is clearly front and center. about an hour and 30 minutes, turkey with jon ferro. [laughter] lisa: i am sure he is going to enjoy that. he is going to take a break but i do think this thanksgiving, the fact people are traveling back to their families, is good. especially after the pandemic. tom: we will have to see what the parade is tomorrow. lisa: have you ever gone? tom: many times. they used to come by the window. the bottom line is it rained here today. the airplane delays tangible. maybe tomorrow it will be clearer and better for the parade. that would be the idea. let's do a data check. an equity left. good morning. futures up 10, the vix had a 12 hand

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