joining me now is film and television director ava duvernay. ms. u for joining me tonight. we love that you are our final politicsnation guest for 2023. before we get to your film, origin, which i watched last night and took a lot away from, all it using it in sermons, but don't tell anyone. i want to get your reaction to comments made this week by republican presidential candidate and former south carolina governor nikki haley who refused to identify slavery as the primary cause of the civil war. and failing to do so even given the chance to clarify her remarks. what were your thoughts on that tonight? >> hello reverend al, i'm happy to be with you whenever i get the chance to see you. good evening and thanks for having me. i think there are two pretty challenging issues when you think about that nikki haley debacle we're all experiencing. either she didn't know that slavery was the reason for that civil war beginning, or she doesn't want to say. and wants to kind of continue the lies of that mission that have become the hallmark of her party. you

joining us now, oscar nominated, emmy winning filmmaker and director of origin ava duvernay. o much for coming to the show. >> thank you for having me. >> origin is based on isabelle wilkerson's 2020 book cast. the book itself is a phenomenal book. the movie is stunning. it got a and nine minute, you got a nine minute standing ovation. why do you feel this movie needed to be made? >> the book captivated me. it revolutionized the way that i thought about myself, my place in the world, and the language with which i would describe myself and i thought that set of ideas put forth, the philosophy of the social hierarchies that we find ourselves within was something that was urgent and it needs to be discussed. i think there's no more prominent art form than film to get a lot of people talking about things quickly and all at once. >> in terms of the ideas put forth in the book, isabelle wilkerson's main argument is that racism is not the real problem, caste is the real problem. in the book and even more so in the movie, you draw that line to show how the treatment of african america

here's my conversation with the director-writer of origin, ava duvernay. excited to have seen this movie origin. you touched on what no one has captured which is a through line. there is connective tissue between all of us. talk to me about why you wanted this filled to be made. >> well, in the book, cast, wilkerson is threading together different arc's history, the arc of the african-american experience, the slavery through segregation to the current day, the arc of the experience in india of untouchables and the arc of the jewish people and their experience during the holocaust and we are taught that these are separate times in history separate oppressed peoples who really aren't connected whether it's racism sexism homophobia antisemitism, whatever it is, it's all grounded in an idea of social hire can i that someone has to be better than someone else. >> there's a line you talk about about confronting trauma. why is that so important? >> as americans, i just don't feel like we have a fluency in the touch stuff. we don't invest the time the emotion the p

here is my conversation with ava duvernay. ava, i am so excited to have seen this movie, "origin." you touched on what no one really has captured, which there is a through line. there is connective tissue between all of us. talk to me about why you wanted this film to be made. >> well, in the book "caste," isabel wilkerson really is threading together different secret arcs of history, right? the arc of the african american experience from slavery through segregation toto the current da. the arc of the experience known as untouchables in india. and the arc of the jewish people and their experience during the holocaust. and we've been taught that these are all separate things, separate times in history, separate oppressed peoples who really aren't connected to each other, whether those isms are racism, sexism, anti-semitism. whatever it is, it's all grounded in an idea of social hierarchy, that someone has to be better than someone else. >> there's a line you talk about, about confronting trauma. >> mm-hmm. >> why is that so important? >> as americans, i just don't feel like we have

i brought you my conversation with ava duvernay earlier this month.0 award winner miles frost, who plays trayvon martin in the film. here is our conversation. >> you are playing the role of somebody who is so well-known in our hearts, in our minds, in our political conversations, trayvon martin. i wonder what that experience was like for you. >> for it is almost indescribable you know the way that a person like trayvon martin carries and how much of an effect it's had on us as black people, and as society and the effect of town the united states and has been the catalyst for so many movements. it was an honor, however, i always found myself at this place of am i doing this right? then again, what does that look like? >> it's a lot of pressure. >> it's a lot of pressure, but it is necessary pressure because we need to get this message out there. >> it must be very startling in some moments to see yourself in him. >> yes. for i was tasked with coming up with the final thoughts and feelings of a kid who realizes he is not about to live any longer. that w