to come to china and report and to see china for themselves and report china in a very objective way's true we do have differences. even when journalists come to china, they see china in a way that's different from our expectations because we believe that china is like this but they are portraying china in a different way, and that sometimes creates some difficulties but that's not the mainstrechina's open not only to the business people but also to western and global and international media. but there were some [inaudible] between china and the united states in some years before. and, you know the chinese media was here in the united states labelled as foreign agents or [inaudible], and that was wrong. that was a difficult time between the chinese government and the u.s. government and the media. i hope that could be mended. also covering foreign journalists reporting in china, there's also laws and regulations. for example, in 2008 [inaudible], there was a lot of changes from the previous regulations which really paved the way more accessible information in china, but i hope that t

so therefore, china is policy on china. i'm trying to us relations involved expressing core concerns, making clear what do you use? these are non negotiable wrapped lines such as a supporting taiwan independence or you know, instigating the separation of china. this is definitely non negotiable. those are the wrapped lice of china and it also involves demonstrating a sincere willingness to cooperate and being open to collaboration in areas where both sides can and should work together. and a g, a geopolitical expert and talk show hosts for the cvt and radio. thank you so much for your insight today. all right, that is going to do it for this episode of modus operandi the show that digs deep into foreign policy and current affairs. i'm your host manila trans. thank you for tuning in. we'll see you again next time to figure out the ammo, the the, the, the, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the russian states. never d as tight as one of the most sense community best. most all sense and up to 5 must be the one else calls. question about

to china and report and see china for themselves and for china in the reasons. it's true that we have differences, between when journalists come to china that do see china in a way that's different from our expectations, because we believe that china is like this, but they are approaching china in different way and sometimes create some difficulties, but the main strain of things. so, china is open not only to the business people, but also to western and global and international media. but there were some between china and the united states in some years before and you know, the chinese media was here in the united states, media, and the label, foreign agents or foreign missions and so, that's kind of between them as kind of a difficult time between the chinese government and the u.s. government. and working together on media. but i hope that that could be mended. and also, covering foreign journalists reporting in china, there's also laws and regulations, for example, in penalty -- right after the games there was a lot of changes from the previous regulations a

or china, i never felt in china it was so easy to incorporate and work in china but i said there are interests and when there are joint interests, it is of course -- [inaudible] but there are things we can do with the u.s. and things we can do with china. >> just one sentence. the big transformation the last decade is that china has transformed a familiar country which held very few sovereign debt accounts around the world to in fact becoming a country which holds a huge number of bonds around the world. so therefore it is a transformation of china's status the last 10 years of the back of the road initiative and along with the lending programs by a number of china's development banks and a development bank among others, china investment corporation, etc. so therefore, it is a brand-new challenge for beijing which is how do we, as china, manage debt relationships with the global south? you've seen this played out in public forum and by sri lanka and else where. i think there is a huge debate underway in beijing under how this should be managed in the future. so this is a real time, l

it is the one chito china, mainland china. and i think when u.s. leaders say -- and use the word one china policy, oftentimes it is confusing to the public because it sounds very much like the one china principle that beijing wants to use. host: that is confusing. to your point about the united states wanting to maintain the status quo. antony blinken was at the world economic forum and ridley -- and reacted to the taiwanese election and talks about what it meant for u.s.-china relations. here's a portion of the remarks. [end video clip] -- [video clip] >> i taiwan we see a powerful affirmation of democracy, something that we congratulated the people for. and something that has been consistent now over many years. and that is the most important thing. but our fundamental interest and the fundamental interests of countries around the world is to make sure that peace and stability is maintained in the taiwan straight. any differences between beijing and taiwan are resolved peacefully. and that one of the hallmarks of success of the relationship betwe

china retaliating by accusing the us of spreading misinformation. instead of addressing the public health crisis, the trump administration. reported to a blame game and leveling unfounded allegations, they claim that china was responsible for the spread of covid-19, politically motivated allegations that were never conclusively proved. why do you keep calling this the chinese virus? there are reports of dozens of incidents of bias against chinese americans in this country. your own aid, secretary azar says he does not use this term. he says ethnicity does not cause the virus. why do you keep using this? buse it comes from ch racist, it's not racist at all, no, not at all, it comes from china, that's why it comes from china, i want to be accurred, i have a great i have great love for all of the people from our country, but uh, as you know, china tried to say at one point, maybe they stuff now, that it was caused by american soldiers, that can't happen, it's not going to happen, not as long as i'm president. and it comes from china. western media play

-china relations. given that, i would like to start the conversation with a relatively open-ended question to each of you. i would like to start with ambassador rudd. given you have written a book about the potential risk of war between the u.s. and china, i was wondering if you would give your assessment on where the u.s. and china relationship stands. if you are optimistic or pessimistic about a biden xi visit in november. >> thank you to the council on foreign relations for inviting me on this panel with two distinguished colleagues. both countries i know well. you ask a question about how i view the u.s.-china china relationship now. i am neither optimistic or pessimistic. as an australian, congenitally real estate -- realistic. i think we need to ground our analysis of the events of the last few weeks and the next few weeks. china is now much more powerful than it was in decades past. why do we have tensions in the u.s.-china relationship? china has moved from the margins of a global power to the

but the china is bringing to serbia, comes at a price the the nation. oh is china? has some h. billy insurance, about a quarter of the country's total debt. china is poised to become the largest born creditor in the entire western vulcans. this is especially true for serbia, the no one knows what will happen if serbia can no longer serve as it stands. good, china use this scenario to demand long term access to serbian territory. the european parliamentarians have long been warning about growing chinese influence and about potential environmental damage by chinese run industrial companies. serbia is often suspected of having low environmental standards, blacks controls, and a lack of transparency. a many you parliamentarians are not convinced that serbia is clearly committed to europe. the country has been a membership candidates since 2012. the concern is that if serbia becomes an e, u member states, china could influence european policy through the back door. one demand is that if there be a really wants to join the u, it must become a less dependent on china. good

, well, that part of china called taiwan, like here we will say. nataliya plaksienko butyrska, expert on east asia, master of foreign policy, we often see her, and we see her with pleasure, and we see her with interest, and we ask her. the presidential and parliamentary elections have actually ended, so to taiwan, this is such a formosa, it was once called a long time ago, the portuguese also called it, such an island near china, there east, and there at one time after 40, after their defeat, the masters of china fled, chiang kai-shek was such a generalissimo, and even more so, i would say yes, for general... understanding, for very long years until the 70s , it was taiwan that was considered china, i.e. the taiwanese sat in the united nations, not the chinese, not beijing, but taipei, but then somehow all this changed , and now china wants to take back this one, which means taiwan, and taiwan, judging by today's election results, doesn't want it, so this laitsinde vice... the president of taiwan, a representative of the democratic progressive part

but she never felt restricted in china. you basically can do everything in china. probably it's not a really mm. free to talk to monitoring component taking china. but the thing is, we don't really talk about voltage because we don't the party, we just, we crossed over the government and we just don't talk about it. so it's not like, oh, it's 4 feet in. and we really wanted to talk about it. but it's for people, it's something that we never talk about way a claims, for example, not to know about the war and ukraine, perhaps or non political stance, explains why she seems to have no problem with surveillance. the celts, safer in china, because we have cameras everywhere and we face it. it's just we don't have homeless people. we don't have uh, we don't have a lot of crimes going on in china. so it's really, really safe to go out in china at any time, even if we don't have these cameras, we are like, um, the government doors. i don't know who, but everybody's watching us. even if we don't have the camera because we have over a cell phone, we have already a computer.

so china's infrastructure developments in 2024. and i think it's very likely that the fiscal deficit for $24.00 is going to break the 3 percent of the thresholds. and so 2024 is likely to be a structure full year for china, not only in public infrastructure, but also in the affordable housing development projects in china is urban areas. meanwhile, the chinese government will continue to pump the billions of dollars into the strategic technological sectors from somebody, conductors to a i, to e, b, 6 cetera. so you're looking at china, so fiscal stimulus, i think you know, that over time is going to create jobs and jobs will post the market confidence a confidence restored somewhat. that'll help to support the consumer spending and therefore the economy will pick up from there often. and what about emerging economies? the brooks nations will countries like brazil and india play a much bigger role in the global economy going forward of the significance and give yourself the g. 20 and presentable. now who's the presidency of the 20 m

contributed china.ome people argue is the largest emitter of greenhouse china should bear more responsibility in addressing climate change. climate is forced by current emissions. as developed countries contribute over 70% of the accumulated omissions, they should show greater r yet china is trying hard to make the sharpest reduction in carbon intensity in the world at achieve carbon neutrality on the shortest time spent in worldhistory. colleagues china's strategic goal i wasimple. that is to deliver a better life for more than 1.4 billion chinese people. to achieve it we are working hard to balance china's organization of president xi jinping recently stressedthe central -- out work work related to foreign policy, policy in the new era should aim at creating a more favorable international environment for china's modernization drive and building of human community with a shared future. and pursuing foreign policy of peace china the peaceful development into china's constitution. and recently have adopt

what will china do play, what role will china play in this regard?et me drink some water first. professor schwab, you raised a very important question. now, artificial intelligence is a catch phrase. people are talking about it a lot and the generative artificial intelligence provided by chat gpt has discus love it, but there are also surprises and some fear in certain quarters. so, indeed, artificial intelligence is everywhere. it seems omnipotent, but people are still taking time to get used to it. like other technologies artificial is also a double-edged sword in that it's applied well, it can do good and bring opportunities to the progress of human civilization and provide great impetus to the industrial kind of scientific revolution. but at the same time, it also poses risks to security and to our effects. well, china believes that technology must serve the common good of humanity. it must do good and the same applies to artificial intelligence. there are two dimensions on most fundamental level. first, it must be people centered. to put plainly

it is the one china principle that says that taiwan belongs to china, mainland china.hink when u.s. leaders say -- and use the word one china policy, oftentimes it is confusing to the public because it sounds very much like the one china principle that beijing wants to use. host: that is confusing. to your point about the united states wanting to maintain the status quo. antony blinken was at the world economic forum and ridley -- and reacted to the taiwanese election and talks about what it meant for u.s.-china relations. here's a portion of the remarks. [end video clip] -- [video clip] >> in taiwan we see a powerful affirmation of democracy, something that we congratulated the people for. and something that has been consistent now over many years. and that is the most important thing. but our fundamental interest and the fundamental interests of countries around the world is to make sure that peace and stability is maintained in the taiwan straight. any differences between beijing and taiwan are resolved peacefully. and that one of the hallmarks of success of the rel

-china. are talking, there seems to be a warmth, how would you describe the relationship? >> over the long run, there is no question that a u.s.-china contest will continue over the next 10-20 years. i think there's a considered view it in washington, d.c. that the uss to stop china from becoming number one. tariffs, technology, sanctions, so on and so forth. i predict that in the year 2024, there will be a low -- lull, a sudden degree of calm driven by a few factors. the u.s. and china are like two giant sumo wrestlers that had to push each other out of the rain. after three rounds, i think they are exhausted. they want to rest for a while. they are trying to push each other. at the same time, the united states is clearly distracted with other issues. distracted with the ukraine war, distracted with the gaza conflict. finally, i think joe biden realizes that, for the election in 2024, he has already proven he is tough on china. he doesn't need to be anti-china anymore. he can set china aside

what do you think china's reaction will be? actually, i think it's a local elections of china.hy i think the china mainland is very, very calm. and, in fact, ithink the taiwan policy in china mainland will not change — at least the three points. first, china must be reunified, and it is bound to be reunified. no situation can split china. second, we want to reunify peacefully but do not promise to give up force. forces are to curb taiwan independence, not for the people of taiwan. it can be said to a certain extent that without taiwan independence, there can be no reunification by force. there will be no use of force. taiwan independence in the coming four years, so i think the process of using military to promote unification will be faster. no force can make taiwan independence. just to come back on you on that, we've seen democracy in action here in taiwan. free and fair elections, transparent election. does china have a claim over taiwan? i think you called a democracy, but in china, it is very typical local election. for the result i think everything is expected. in fact, i

belgrade china acquired it in 2018. the goran you total of which lives here in one of the most polluted places in all of serbia. for years he has watched his hometown be sold off. he complains that the serbian state has imposed no regulations on the new owners, and there was far too little information about the hold of me see middle sol assessment that mostly says we just moved over and left everything to them because it's like eastern serbia has somehow been sacrificed nichols, i don't know if it's because of chinese influence in international organizations or because they give us cheap loans for new highways and they go to put both of those ones that are driving around the mine. the scale on which china is building here becomes clear. the gold and copper are to be extracted as quickly as possible. gigantic new sites are being developed and access roads built all within ported labor. after their shift, the workers return to their logics. the hello. the mood seems good. no one speaks english. you're working here, though

. , growing china?or lower growth for longer china scenario? jun-bei: it is a growing china. growth will slow down but this year will not be the year. they are recovering from what was a very prolonged period of slow down and recovery. we think this year will be the year of people gather pace but perhaps over the long-term, we do have to see some of those structural indicators come through. it is too early to call. haidi: what do you like in china? jun-bei: in china, we prefer more consumer-facing as well as the likes of travel and restaurants and the like. i think this upcoming chinese new year is going to bring quite a lot of consumption. in the previous travel, period -- the thief travel period a few months ago, the consumer was robust. even though the consumer is cautious with what they pending on, in the coming periods, it will look better. , we know that the president with the growth drivers to come from things like evs, batteries and renewables. is that space interesting? jun-bei: absolutely. the

china has a massive trade deficit.massive trade deficit with china, and china has trade surplus with japan, south korea, india engage in unfair economic competition. would you think it is reasonable for the united states to explicitly have a goal to try to reduce the trade deficit with china by 10% every year as a metric of the we could rebalance the relationship? >> i -- i think it is very important for the united states to be able to develop industry, manufacturing, develop those products that are important particularly to our national security. and you're right, we have hollowed out that capability over the last few years. we need toe able to make clear that we are going to develop the kind of security that we need. and yeah, i think limits make sense as part of that package of the developing our own capabilities and manufacturing and industry. >> secretary pompeo? >> yeah, i would add, larger right that i would add only this. should begin to focus on things that really matter as opposed to trade more generally. i'm

china generally calls him a dangerous separatist. but we understand that the fate of taiwan is not decided exclusively by presidential elections. mr. vitaly, what do you think this vote is about, based on its previous results? you know, i think it's about stability to some extent the mood of the citizens, because the fact that the democratic progressive party managed to w... that it did not happen immediately, today, by the way, is another anniversary of the death of general musachen kashi, the founder of the kuomintang in its current taiwanese form, and as you understand, during the reign of chiang kai-shek there was no such democracy. there was not, there was in principle a one-party regime of the kuominde party, but when president chenkesha's son jiang qingguo , who you know had soviet experience, was yermalaev in the soviet union, had a russian wife from the soviet union, who became the first lady of taiwan, it's such an amazing story, and with all the hatred of the soviet union for taiwan, there, the russian woman was the first

and the world china -- china and the world calmly and confidently.ness opportunities should not be used as a political threat. she said it is important for time want have communication with china but it would be too much a price to pay if that means that time one has to exchange its sovereignty for such communication. haidi: we are just about over 10 days out, until the taiwanese heads of the polls. house the race shaping up? -- the taiwanese head to the polls. how's the race shaping up? reporter: it is the next president and legislature january 13. this is going to be an election that policymakers in washington will monitor very closely because taiwan is the biggest flashpoint in the u.s.-china relations. this is basically a three way race. the election is essentially about two competing roads. the ruling party's candidate said taiwan should not go back to the old past of relying on china economically. the only way on the right way for taiwan going forward is to move closer to the world, and that will reduce risk. but the opposition candidate, they

uh, domestically speaking for china. the that issue is most of huge in the corporate sector and in the municipal government sector. so what the government is trying to do is to get to do stringent the due diligence, the order to build a firewall, to prevent the corporate financial stress from b, spelled over to the financial sector in order to prevent a systemic financial crisis. but try to does have a lot of fun levers, both in terms of monetary and fiscal policies are in place in the event of a severe economic calamity. and if we were to reflect on the 07, the way to us centered to global financial crisis. the u. s. has promised the 4 runs of 2. he's in order to provide a floor of liquidity to the financial system, trying to hasn't even begun to talk about your needs yet. so i think there are still a lot of policy room available to address some severe cataclysmic events in china will have to leave with the show. you great to have you in the studio head still, but it was thanks very much the thank you. thank you. well,

so you're looking at china. so fiscal stimulus, i think, you know, that over time is going to create jobs and jobs will boost the market confidence a confidence restored somewhat. that'll help to support consumer spending and the, for the economy will pick up from their offer. and what about emerging economies? the brooks nations will countries like brazil and india play a much bigger role in the global economy going forward of the significance and give yourself the g. 20 and presentable. now who's the presidency of the 20 mozilla and your top 10 over the quantities and it was, it was an emergency energy power as well. i will be attractive benefits for the next round, the commodity cycle in prison. the energy prices as when the supervisor, the civil, was in power earlier. when you buy a supervisor prices, you leave the car account to raise, try out. you find most of ours, the us, you're trying their hardest to a started times with india to calculate the china. we've always in the views with canada where the murd

the big china challenge. it's a year since covid lockdowns were abandoned, but is the world's second biggest economy back to full health? the struggles of the property sector, soaring youth unemployment and ongoing trade tensions with the us are just some of the problems xi jinping's government is trying to tackle. this leading china economist will explain how the government needs to balance its ambitions with the changing demands of a radically different younger generation if it wants the country to thrive. plus, this former head of the international monetary fund's china division tells me how beijing struggles are affecting all of us around the world and keeping the internet free and fair. the big boss of web browser, firefox, tells me how herfoundation is trying to compete with the deep pocketed rivals like google and apple and still have an influence. wherever you'rejoining me from around the world. once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. china — it's the world's second biggest economy. it

there are 400 active bases surrounding china. but us spaces based off here in australia with probably the one of the most important a pine gap, all the way up through the philippines, thailand, korea and japan. so that we have bases now which are primed for nuclear attack. uh uh, you know, from, uh well, uh and a korea uh pointer china, something like 5 or 600 miles away. that's the kind of provocation that way, living with day by day. now that's almost never use that as the dangerous stage, but worrying leaving us in a stage when they could be mistake or accident. and it becomes a nuclear war. and the china adults and in military times, trying to it doesn't threaten that. he bought a, it's made, it is major very clear, the water. it's interest to this business in trading uh, in uh, in, in, in development, in, in making its own people. a prosper us in a way that they have never known you. when you're in china, you have a history is like a presence the history of trying to ride through the 19th century as a, a colonial, impoverish

the us is opposing china.f the indo-pacific concept, india and the united states are working to contain beijing. a division of labor has developed. india is responsible for security in the indian ocean, and the united states in the south china sea and other areas where required. ocean and nuclear weapons, they, as always , greatly exaggerate, because no one except india is able to control the indian ocean. india has its own considerable indians are worried about the indian navy, there is us support, and even russia is helping it. in general, i don’t think that china has such large-scale plans to dominate the indian ocean. the indians are trying to present china's strategy as capturing one port after another. honestly speaking, from i have never heard anything like this from chinese military and civilian leaders. nuclear weapons - yes, but i have repeatedly explained to indian interlocutors: pakistani nuclear weapons are a response to india, indian nuclear weapons are a response to china. chinese nuclear weapon

of china, they are also assessing what they should do for the china portfolio.ussed a few minutes ago. especially with there is a lack of attractive capital markets alternative. a lot of them are thinking about whether they should consider a sale of a majority stake or a strict sale to local players as well. these are the themes you will continue to see in china m&a. certainly the things that are keeping us busy. more mature markets like hong kong, there's the public to private privatization transactions, that's also happening a lot these days. annabelle: andsamson lo,l -- samson lo, and we will have more with the harvard kennedy school's cheryl lu. this is bloomberg. ♪ hello, brent. hi? if you had to choose, would you watch paint dry or compare benefits plans? compare benefits every time. come on, you know how complicated benefits can be. well, i run payroll with gusto. they make it easier to find benefits like medical, dental, and vision for my whole team. man, i think i'm going to need new glasses. don't worry. i've got you covered. yes! choose benefits witho

china is the future of the entire planet.ukashenko announced this during his second working trip to the celestial empire in a year. minsk and beijing are not going to deviate from their common path. the high-level negotiations caused widespread discussion in experts and the media. community. the meeting of the two leaders was called historic, and the heads of state themselves confirmed it. foreign policy, however, he is not alone, so distant, but only at first glance, africa turned out to be open to belarus. our country offers equal partnerships; the continent is rich and useful. fossils, there are about 30% of the world's reserves. for a long time, western countries siphoned off african wealth, simply depriving states of the opportunity to develop independently. belarus is not one of those, in africa they see and appreciate this. belarus is reliable partner for equatorial guinea, and we reinforce our friendship not only in word, but also in deed. the president of belarus noted: the delegations have done a lot of work, more t

says 2021. china, relieved to 23. i frequent country state and in 2022. china has successfully helped gonna restructure. he's that good be turning those approaches work to try and china or is it the forefront to try to do something about it? you recognize it's not down to the west of lending institutions. it's a black, a chinese trying to do, or would con, and i should say that it is not out out of altruism either because it is indeed in chinese interest. that'd be so over a $140000000000.00 of debt to china. loans to africa. does not go into default. however, i don't think we should use a plain game here because the reality is that africa in particular has been shut out of the global modernity by not being offered. busy sufficient to capital funding for the past 4 or 5 centuries. this is the moment where the west and china should join hands in providing massive capital infrastructure building to the roles and these, the developed nations. no country should be shut out out of the world with modernity and economic pros

because manju said that taiwan won't beat china anyway. ugh. this statement was enough, as well as ma's recent trip to china, to make hoi not want to see him at his campaign rally, even though this is a man who symbolizes the achievements and victories of the kuomintang, because he will say that we have different approaches to relations with china, so this is a consolidated position of the taiwanese establishment, the positions of the democratic party and the kuomintang do not differ much here, that is, both political... forces do not declare independence, and this is already china's opinion that the progressive party is more separatist, and the kuomintang is less separatist, because the kuomintang has its roots in the mainland, uh, and all these people who ran the chinese communist party, they were all members of the kuomintang governing bodies, and mao zedong, and zhonglai, all the founders of kener, they were in the kuomintang, it there was a general national such party, but the democratic progressive party was created on its own. and theref

and china. our job is to wage competition and to do so practically, to do so peacefully, but to wage competition because these are our national interests at stake. what makes this relationship complicated and complex, and doesn't render it to simplistic analysis, is the fact that we are competing with we have to engage china. president biden and president xi have agreed we have to work on climate change together. china is the largest carbon emitter in the world. we are number two and you have seen john kerry and his chinese counterpart working together. they have had 50 meetings over the last three years before they arrived together at cop 28 in dubai that just concluded. working practically together. they had 50 meetings over the last three years before they arrived together at cop 28 in dubai the just concluded. so we have to work together on climate change. we have to work together on fentanyl and that was one of the breakthrough agreements at the california summit between the two presidents.

china was worried about _ taiwan's on voters. china was worried about william - taiwan's on voters.ried about william lai - taiwan's on voters. china was worried about william lai andj taiwan's on voters. china was - worried about william lai and said they have concerns about the result but william lai has actually softened his rhetoric when it comes to formal independence. yes. softened his rhetoric when it comes to formal independence.— softened his rhetoric when it comes to formal independence. yes, i think that's more — to formal independence. yes, i think that's more what _ to formal independence. yes, i think that's more what beijing _ to formal independence. yes, i think that's more what beijing was - to formal independence. yes, i think that's more what beijing was hoping | that's more what beijing was hoping for, they were pretty sure that he was going to win. he was odds—on favourite to do so and he has in fact won by a clear margin. what they wanted to do was make sure he didn't feel any temptation to push his rhetoric beyond what he had said before and what his predecess

you mentioned china, china is struggling.take all the action to ensure the growth is back. growth coming back to the economy is in good for india. china is a competition to india, but it's good for all the countries in the world. haslinda: what could go wrong for india? >> it's unpredictable. things happening around the world which no one could have imagined six months back. any kind of global slowdown that backs our 16% of gdp. we have to be aware of the fact that interest rates in the emerging markets, and it will be higher for a long amount of time. for example, the u.s. has moved from a tight market policy to a deposit. given what's going on there, we expect interest rates to be higher, india, given its inflation will keep rates higher. high interest rate environment does impact this at economic strength. as i said, things are better for india. haslinda: indian banks are doing better now that they cleaned up their bad loans. you are lagging behind. how are you looking to catch up to your bigger rivals. >> in that sense, i

, the east china sea, south china sea, yellow sea and what have you for the defense of china, the pla, navy is built primarily to defend china from attack from the sea, which is, of course, is something that happened to china repeatedly in the 19th century and early in the 20th century, being invaded from abroad. and so, for example, they have about 50 conventional diesel powered submarines, 90 odd small corvette s and frigates and an important to think about when you look at the totality of the western pacific is that if it turns out there's a fight appeal, a navy is not going to fight alone. they have the entire play. air force. they had the land base play navy, air force, and they have pla rocket there as part of a joint campaign on their their their part and they make sure they can all of those systems effectively with it of a really incredibly effective open ocean system. let me finish with a thought on everybody. ask how good are these guys? and i think the answer is we don't know for sure. again, the seventh fleet, i'm sure, keeps track what they're up to and what they're doing