sir wyn williams so that he cannot make _ sir wyn williams so that he cannot make these — sir wyn williamsg for the — make these pronouncements. i know it is fitting for the committee, _ is fitting for the committee, certainty— is fitting for the committee, certainty in _ is fitting for the committee, certainly in my— is fitting for the committee, certainly in my instance, - is fitting for the committee, i certainly in my instance, that i wasn't — certainly in my instance, that i wasn't in — certainly in my instance, that i wasn't in the _ certainly in my instance, that i wasn't in the organisation - certainly in my instance, that i wasn't in the organisation and | certainly in my instance, that i- wasn't in the organisation and that you would — wasn't in the organisation and that you would like _ wasn't in the organisation and that you would like specific— wasn't in the organisation and that you would like specific answers, i wasn't in the organisation and that you would like specific answers, it| you would like specific answers, it is very— you would like specific answers, it is very dif

as i say, i'm sure it is something that sir wyn— i'm sure it is something that sir wyn williams willwhy that was the case. ., ., ., , was the case. horizon was also used in at the crown _ was the case. horizon was also used in at the crown office, _ was the case. horizon was also used in at the crown office, wasn't - was the case. horizon was also used in at the crown office, wasn't it? i in at the crown office, wasn't it? has any investigations been down there? was anybody prosecuted? i’m there? was anybody prosecuted? i'm not 100% certain. when _ there? was anybody prosecuted? i'm not 100% certain. when deficiencies l not 100% certain. when deficiencies found in the — not 100% certain. when deficiencies found in the crown _ not 100% certain. when deficiencies found in the crown post _ not 100% certain. when deficiencies found in the crown post office? - not 100% certain. when deficiencies found in the crown post office? i i found in the crown post office? i haven't got that detail. you can see that you _ haven't got that detail. you can see that you are — haven't got that detail. y

role played by sir wyn.ich he addresses this.— that as the forum in which he addresses this. 25 years, and runnina addresses this. 25 years, and running the _ addresses this. 25 years, and running the business. - addresses this. 25 years, and running the business. do - addresses this. 25 years, and running the business. do you i addresses this. 25 years, and - running the business. do you think the post office _ running the business. do you think the post office abused _ running the business. do you think the post office abused his - running the business. do you think the post office abused his position to prosecute in order to cover up his own failings? i to prosecute in order to cover up his own failings?— his own failings? i think it is unreasonable _ his own failings? i think it is unreasonable to _ his own failings? i think it is unreasonable to ask - his own failings? i think it is unreasonable to ask these l his own failings? i think it is - unreasonable to ask these questions when _ unreasonable to a

wyn with all the information... but what is the answer? i _ wyn with all the information...ion... but what is the answer? i have not got| what is the answer? i have not got that specific _ what is the answer? i have not got that specific date. _ what is the answer? i have not got that specific date. i _ what is the answer? i have not got that specific date. i can _ what is the answer? i have not got that specific date. i can come - what is the answer? i have not got that specific date. i can come back to you _ to you. the chief to you. — the chief executive since 2000 that 19 of the post office. live now to a former sub—postmaster. welcome back. were you in any way reassured by what you heard, or were you, like the mps, a bit disappointed that neither fujitsu nor the current boss of the post office seem to be able to answer some fairly fundamental questions? abs, some fairly fundamental questions? little bit of both. it was actually very good to hear paul patterson, the boss of fujitsu, i admit that they have culpability in this for they have culpability in this for the firs

strange as it sounds, she had a feeling that wyn was, well, not wyn. she could not be sure.ifferent and her face? well, maybe. yet wyn reminded meg a great deal of an old high school classmate. a woman named tucker, tucker reed. >> i really had a strong inkling that that was her. she looks so much like her. >> did she seem to recognize you? >> no. >> it was just so peculiar. new meg and this tucker reed had been in place together in high school. >> i remember thinking, i could really see her being someone who will succeed professionally. >> the high school tucker, meg remembered, also had a very, well, president mother. kelly was her name. always around. >> her mom would come to the theater to help her with her hair and makeup. >> but, memories can be tricky. and now, years later on the movie set, meg began to doubt hers. >> i was 50/50 on it. >> you weren't sure if it was the same person or not? >> i was not sure! >> until the day a woman, introduced as wyn's relatives showed up on set. >> and i saw that her relatives had a bag full of hair and makeup stuff. >> meg recogniz

sir wyn williams and jason beare _ that sir wyn williams and jason beare 0c— that sir wyn williams andre qc are doing theirjob, i think they— beare qc are doing theirjob, i think they will. _ think they will. 0ut _ think they will. out of- think they will.| out of interest, think they will. - out of interest, with, think they will. _ out of interest, with, worked for minister of defence for procurements, so used to external contracts, do you think it would be appropriate for the government to cease any new contracts being given to fujitsu entail this inquiry is concluded and until they have paid their part back to the victims and back to the british taxpayer for the role they have likely played in this scandal? ., ,., ., ., , scandal? there are some areas where a sinale scandal? there are some areas where a single supplier— scandal? there are some areas where a single supplier is _ scandal? there are some areas where a single supplier is the _ scandal? there are some areas where a single supplier is the only _ scandal? there are some areas where a single supplier is the only viable - a

i have sent it back to wyn williams and i'm sure he'lll to wyn williams and i'm sure he'll work awayps which - is. a valuable call, thank you. we have our panel of mps which willl have our panel of mps which will always do on a wednesday coming up at ten o'clock. do you fancy asking them a question after ten o'clock if you don't have to rush off? fries. you don't have to rush off? yes, lease! you don't have to rush off? yes, please! we _ you don't have to rush off? yes, please! we can _ you don't have to rush off? yes, please! we can do _ you don't have to rush off? yes, please! we can do another - you don't have to rush off? yes, . please! we can do another however alon: with please! we can do another however along with the _ please! we can do another however along with the mps _ please! we can do another however along with the mps because - please! we can do another however along with the mps because i'm - please! we can do another however i along with the mps because i'm sure, we have a live demo and a conservative and labour coming up, so any of you would be very welcome at the t

so we have provided that information to sir wyn.ng, and we will, as i say, get to the bottom of exactly what happened. obviously happened. and this is obviously pre is that a possible that the >> is that a possible that the money is that the subpostmasters paid and it up in the coffers of the post office . and then as the post office. and then as part of the profits , the monies part of the profits, the monies were then paid to dividend holders and indeed could have been part of et. island . hefty been part of et. island. hefty numeration packages for the post office. um executive it's difficult to say. >> i mean, as i say, this is this is difficult. this is pre 2015. i don't have the context of what the what is it possible? >> i mean, it's possible. >> i mean, it's possible. >> of course it's possible. absolutely it's possible. >> patterson was y y at the >> mr patterson was y y at the time. you know, you knew that there was glitches in the system . why did you sit back and do absolutely nothing about it ? absolutely nothing about

sir wyn williams, the chair of the inquiry, has called it "grossly unsatisfactory".ept your plea, but only if you don't blame horizon. the post office said, "we have absolutely no interest in delay", and called the disclosure process "extremely challenging", involving around 70 million documents. and the inquiry continues next week, when employees of fujitsu, the company which built the horizon system which started all this trouble, are due to appear. ben king, bbc news. with so much of our time now spent online, it can feel like we are filling in endless passwords, inevitably forgetting them and having to think up new ones as a result — but could that soon be a thing of the past? major tech and internet firms have started turning to passkeys — a no—password solution which uses biometrics or device pins to protect our accounts online. our cyber correspondent joe tidy can tell us more. pass key. you may not yet have heard of them, but passkeys are the future of how we stay safe online. dozens of internet businesses, large and small, are hoping this new bit of tech wil

in fact, the chair of this inquiry, sir wyn williams, has become so concerned by this that he's threatenedl sanctions against the post office if it doesn't produce evidence in a timely manner. this morning giving evidence was chris jackson. he's a lawyer with burgess salmon and he's been brought in by the post office to help them to speed up the delivery of evidence. he started his evidence session by apologising for the delays. really, what this session has been about has been about trying to work out what the post office intends to do to make sure that these delays stop happening because, as i say, this is a serious criminal issue. this is a statutory inquiry. there's nothing voluntary about the giving of evidence here. that threat of criminal action remains if the post office doesn't get its house in order. in the last few minutes, it's been announced that the broadcaster annie nightingale has died. among her accomplishments, being radio 1's first female dj, and gaining a reputation as a dedicated promoter of new music. david sillito looks back at her life. annie nightingale. annie nigh

wyn williams inquiry is undertaking crucial work to undertaking crucial work to under to expose whatent wrong. and we've paid almost £150 million compensation to over million in compensation to over 2500 victims. but today i can announce that we will introduce new primary legislation to make sure that those convicted as a result of the horizon scandal are swiftly exonerated and compensated . we will also compensated. we will also introduce a new upfront payment of £75,000 for the vital glow group of postmasters and can i thank my hon. friend the member for thirsk and malton, for all his hard work on this issue. he will set out more details to the house shortly. we will make sure that the truth comes to light. we right of . the past we right the wrongs of. the past and the victims get the justice they deserve . they deserve. >> leader of the opposition keir starmer . starmer. >> uh, thank you, mr speaker. i heard what the prime minister just said about the post office scandal . scandal. >> it is a huge injustice . >> it is a huge injustice. >> it is a huge injustice. >> people lost th

sir wyn williams, the chair of the inquiry, has called it "grossly unsatisfactory".if you don't blame horizon. the post office said, "we have absolutely no interest in delay", and called the disclosure process "extremely challenging", involving around 70 million documents. and the inquiry continues next week, when employees of fujitsu, the company which built the horizon system which started all this trouble, are due to appear. ben king, bbc news. let's ta ke let's take you back to the hague, whether session has resumed at the international court ofjustice. they were on a break earlier, but south africa has brought this case, allegations that israel is committing genocide in gaza. this is a two day hearing. it's the second of the two days. we are going to hear a bit of what is being said by the israeli side in a moment. first, let's hear some of what was said by the south african side yesterday. south africa's justice the south african side yesterday. south africa'sjustice minister delivered the opening statement. in extending our hands across the miles to the people

in terms of how serious all of this is, the chair of the inquiry, sir wyn williams, has already threatenedprisonment, if they do not provide the evidence that the inquiry needs to do its job. what the post office is saying is that they have got quite a difficult task on their hands because they have got to wade through, they say, 70 million documents. what today's hearing is really trying to get to the bottom of it is what plans the post office has in place to speed up these evidence disclosures. i5 has in place to speed up these evidence disclosures.- evidence disclosures. is way conway there at the inquiry. _ evidence disclosures. is way conway there at the inquiry. thank - evidence disclosures. is way conway there at the inquiry. thank you. --| there at the inquiry. thank you. —— zoe conway. making his first major speech as party leader in what is expected to be a general election year, the snp's humza yousaf said it marks a "huge opportunity for scotland". mr yousaf said votes for labour are effectively votes against scottish independence. he also said he aims to "wipe the tories from

in fact, the chair of this inquiry, sir wyn williams, has become so concerned by this that he's threatenedhris jackson. he's a lawyer with burgess salmon and he's been brought in by the post office to help them to speed up the delivery of evidence. he started his evidence session by apologising for the delays. really, what this session has been about has been about trying to work out what the post office intends to do to make sure that these delays stop happening because, as i say, this is a serious criminal issue. this is a statutory inquiry. there's nothing voluntary about the giving of evidence here. that threat of criminal action remains if the post office doesn't get its house in order. zoe, at that inquiry. the radio1 dj, annie nightingale, the station's first female presenter, who went on to become its longest—serving host, has died, at the age of 83. her family said she was a "pioneer, trailblazer and an inspiration to many." david sillito looks back at her life. annie nightingale. annie nightingale on bbc radio 1. there was kind of a lot of expectation about it, i guess. you know,

i very much supported the creation of the sir wyn williams inquiry, so you've got to let that take theons. and i've said in parliament the, you know, putting right what has gone wrong for a company like fujitsu, when they answer those questions we need answers to, you know, it's got to be something which addresses the scale of this crisis. i welcome the fact they've acknowledged that they'll be paying some compensation, they believe, towards this and i think it's notjust about them, it's about how do we procure these contracts in future. but you can't play down the significance of this. it is a really, really bad episode in british government and how the state works and i think we've got to recognise the scale of that in how we go forward. well, thanks for our conversation today and safe travels home. thank you very much. people criticise davos as kind of like some meetings with some skiing attached. but you do get kind of interesting combinations at these things, don't you, simon? you do. i mean, i'm not personally a huge fan of davos, - but i think that those who go there really find

in fact, the chair of this inquiry, sir wyn williams, has become so concerned by this that he's threatenedving evidence was chris jackson. he's a lawyer with burgess salmon and he's been brought in by the post office to help them to speed up the delivery of evidence. he started his evidence session by apologising for the delays. really, what this session has been about has been about trying to work out what the post office intends to do to make sure that these delays stop happening because, as i say, this is a serious criminal issue. this is a statutory inquiry. there's nothing voluntary about the giving of evidence here. that threat of criminal action remains if the post office doesn't get its house in order. with so much of our time now spent online, it can feel like we are filling in endless passwords, inevitably forgetting them and having to think up new ones as a result, but could that soon be a thing of the past? major tech and internet firms have started turning to passkeys, a no—password solution which uses biometrics or device pins to protect our accounts online. our cyber corresp

this is what the inquiry is l there to do because what we'll do is get the answers from sir wyn williamsfor all of this compensation. if others can clearly be proved to have notjust been wrong that double down on it in that process. band notjust been wrong that double down on it in that process.— on it in that process. and first of all, on it in that process. and first of all. should _ on it in that process. and first of all, should paula _ on it in that process. and first of all, should paula vennells i on it in that process. and first of all, should paula vennells give l on it in that process. and first of i all, should paula vennells give back her cbe? in all, should paula vennells give back her cbe? , , , ., her cbe? in my view, yes, i would hoe her cbe? in my view, yes, i would ho -e she her cbe? in my view, yes, i would hope she would _ post office contracts. post office contracts because _ post office contracts. post office contracts because you _ post office contracts. post office contracts because you have i post office contracts. post office contracts because you have the l con

. >> now, my first guest tonight is farmer gareth wyn jones.ady on this show. he's warning now that protests witnessed across germany could soon be here on the streets and in the fields and byways and highways of britain. farmers in germany are blockading roads in protest against subsidy cuts with more than 500 tractors and trucks parked up by berlin's brandenburg gate. gareth is here with us now, i hope. gareth. good evening. to good see your face again. >> evening. how are things, gareth? >> what? uh what are you keeping tabs on? what's happening in germany, you know. are you across that? are you in touch with any of them? yeah yeah. >> so we're talking with a few, um, the people that are involved in it , you know, um, the people that are involved in it, you know, it's um, the people that are involved in it , you know, it's not um, the people that are involved in it, you know, it's not just the farming protest. i think we have to understand that it's a lot bigger. there's massive pubuc lot bigger. there's massive public support out there for

so we're going to talk to one of our favourite farmers, if not our favourite farmer, gareth wyn jones by the looks of it. >> now you're in a you're not blockading anyone, are you? in that tractor? >> not yet. >> not yet. >> and yet being the pertinent word. >> gareth, just explain to our viewers and our listeners why these mass protests have happenedin these mass protests have happened in germany . we saw happened in germany. we saw similar ones in france and denmark as well in the netherlands , in holland. sorry. netherlands, in holland. sorry. tell us what's been going on. >> well, again , you know, the >> well, again, you know, the crush thing, the farmers , these crush thing, the farmers, these subsidies were put there for, um, you know, the subsidy for the red diesel, um, was put there so we can produce food affordably for people . now, i've affordably for people. now, i've just filled this tractor up with diesel. now, if i wasn't having a subsidy on that diesel, it would cost me twice as much for that diesel. so instead of £100 to be filling this tractor up, it would be £200. no

. >> well, joining us now is a welsh farmer, gareth wyn jones. good morning gareth.e again it started in the see you again. it started in the netherlands didn't it. first of all i think the tractors , the all i think the tractors, the farmers dispute it and then it moved on to germany and france. and as we see, we saw a small bit of protesting here last week in scotland. just remind our viewers what the key frustrations are on behalf of these incredibly necessary , very these incredibly necessary, very hard working men and women that put the food on our plates . put the food on our plates. >> well, you know , i'll bring it >> well, you know, i'll bring it back to right at the beginning in canada, when it started a few years ago. um with the truckers and the farmers went out to protest a lot of it is to do with government policy , red with government policy, red tape, you know, bureaucracy . so tape, you know, bureaucracy. so they put legislation on farmers, um, to grow things, and then they import cheaper food from other countries . um, which, other countries. um, wh

let's go to gareth jones there in gareth wyn jones who's there in snowdonia, snowdonia.cows in ireland now to bnng 41,000 cows in ireland now to bring the nitrate levels down. >> you know, we had ruminants on god's earth before we were here. you know, there was bison and buffalo and farting and burping. excuse my language, but that's the truth. we need to address this situation. and i believe farmers are getting blamed for a lot of this . you know, you can lot of this. you know, you can see what's happened in germany. you can see what's happened in the netherlands. it happened in canada. happened new canada. it's happened in new zealand. france zealand. it's happened in france . you know, this a push for . you know, this is a push for net zero. and it's going to make everybody very we everybody very, very hungry. we are ing into food are sleepwalk ing into food shortages . and not just that in shortages. and not just that in wales . now there is a talk about wales. now there is a talk about this new policy that 10% of every single family farm and farmland will have to ha

the likes of dan biggar, alun wyn jones now moving alun wyn jones and now moving on. from that perspectiveis club gloucester yesterday. the ceo there said look we did try to keep him. but ultimately the lure of nfl ultimately the lure of the nfl um was too great at this time. so i guess from a rugby standpoint, there'll be a lot of people that like to people there that would like to think, doesn't work think, well, if it doesn't work out, can get him back, out, maybe we can get him back, um, the year and get him um, within the year and get him back fold. but back in the fold. but realistically, think that he realistically, i think that he will be picked up by an nfl team at the very least, put on a practice they will try practice squad. they will try and him and this be and develop him and this will be and develop him and this will be a pathway into the unknown for louis and obviously louis rees—zammit and obviously we wish him the very best of luck. i, for one, will certainly be an rugby fan. >> i wish him extra luck well >> i wish him extra luck as well and hope it all works out for and

and i think the inquiry of sir wyn williams, the independent former judge who's running that statutorynto the failures here, will the systemic failures here, will reveal the full extent of what went wrong from top to bottom. the governance failures , the the governance failures, the failures in procurement of this system way back in the late 90s, 98, 99. that's the period we're looking back to and then coming up with constructive proposals about how we can prevent this sort of disaster, this scandal, from happening again , most from happening again, most definitely now, the software company at the heart of this scandal is fujitsu. >> they still enjoy government contracts worth upwards of £200 million a year, as the company itself is valued at £52 billion. sir robert do you think that they should be paying a higher price for their role in this scandal ? scandal? >> i think inevitably the contract and the management of it by this company will have to be examined. it may well result in litigation in itself. um and i think clearly government are going to have to ask questions about future

the government did call, did conduct an inquiry which sir wyn williams has produced an interim reporton as possible, but it has stated that people victims should be compensated fully for this and, um, you know, when we're looking at people who've been in prison, should we look at pardoning those people who have received being convicted through horizon ? being convicted through horizon? um, it not working properly. i mean, it is quite gobsmacking that i mean, i was looking before it's a bit like, um, the labour party criticising, uh , labour party criticising, uh, the prime minister for questioning whether the rwanda policy was the right one to do. if you've got hundreds, hundreds of post office people suddenly becoming criminals, don't you think that someone should have questioned why suddenly there seemed to be so many criminals in our post office workers ? i in our post office workers? i think that's something that should have been looked at. >> and sally , one of those >> and sally, one of those people who perhaps missed some warnings , perhaps dismissed five warnings, perhaps dism

. >> well , the chairman the >> well, the chairman of the inquiry, sir wyn, whatever his name is, has's got to go and give evidence. and if there should be criminal prosecutions in this, i'm not saying should be saying him, but they should be criminal prosecution the criminal prosecution because the law used against these law has been used against these people that the people. and we know that the post knew there was post office knew there was a problem with this system, and so did they going to did fujitsu. are they going to cough right, not the taxpayer. >> i think it should be fujitsu that they've got least that they've got at least at least some tab. least some of the tab. >> yeah. all of this i think >> yeah. on all of this i think um oh i had a point i was going to make and i forgot i've forgotten entirely about oh, guess no, i was guess what else. no, no, i was just going to ask i was just going to ask you. i was just going to ask you. i was just going to ask you because you are. i like having a you two are. i like having a discussion we don't discussion with you. we don't norm