by former armed forces minister to gordon brown, bill rammell and charlie rowley , former and charlie rowley, former special adviser to theresa may and gove, and charles charles, to start with you and the word michael gove. there is in our script for this programme. is he behind is he trying to behind all this? is he trying to push kemi banknock even push kemi banknock or or even penny number 10? penny mordaunt into number 10? i i don't think so. >> of course, i don't think there's , much in the stories there's, much in the stories over the weekend because as jacob was saying , if you chop jacob was saying, if you chop and change your leader again, the , forget about the the country, forget about the westminster bubble and forget about everybody follows about everybody who follows politics day basis. politics on a day to day basis. i think country would just i think the country would just be arms at the prospect be up in arms at the prospect that conservative that the conservative party has ditched to ditched yet another leader to install somebody else, but, you know, sticking with rishi sunak, sticking with a guy who seems to be doing a fantastic job