joining us now is sherrilynn ifill. she is now the vernon e. jordan jr. distinguished chair and civil rights at howard law school. ms. ifill, it makes me happy to see your face. i'm happy you could be here tonight of all nights. thank you for making the time. >> of course. >> so justice roberts criticized the liberal justices' dissent today, said they were striking a tone of chilling doom, essentially saying calm down, ladies. accusing them of overreacting and portraying this ruling's consequences as something that they are not. you clearly think the consequences of this ruling are, in your words, potentially catastrophic. can you explain why you think so? >> yeah, i do, i do. thank you so much, rachel, for having me. that is part of what was so disturbing about chief roberts' decision. if you're going burn the house down, don't be mad that people call it arson. you know, this decision is -- i talked about it being -- having catastrophic consequences because precisely of what justice sotomayor says about the rule of law. there is no question about the rule

writing today at slate.com, the civil rights attorney and legal scholar sherrilynn ifill underlined the urgency of this moment. quote, in just the last three terms alone the court has upended long-standing precedents, wiping away rights it formerly deemed fundamental and upending the protections and guarantees upon which tens of millions of americans had come to rely for decades. joining us now is sherrilynn ifill, one of my favorite people to talk to about anything, but especially the supreme court. sherrilynn, it's really nice to see you. thank you for being here. >> thank you, rachel. >> you have been an advocate for a long time that the court needs discipline effectively. the court needs reform, that it has behaved in such a way in recent years that rightfully call its legitimacy into question to the public in a way that's dangerous, given the important role of the court in our society and in our system of government. what do you assess as the sort of the weight, the heft, the potential to meet the moment of these reforms proposed today by president biden? >> well, it's going to be