earlier i spoke to retail analyst hitha herzog who said people are changing their shopping habits.id one thing that is expensive about raising kids in new york city isn't necessarily the cost of education, it is the cost of fruit, specifically raspberries. when you see these consumers, especially the higher end consumer flock to walmart to get better pricing on things like fruit, it is a true thing, we are not seeing so much of the consumer thatis not seeing so much of the consumer that is doing really well and the consumer that is not going to walmart, it is now meeting in the middle. everyone wants to feel and obtain that discount on pricing of groceries. obtain that discount on pricing of aroceries. ~ ., , ., ., groceries. would it be fair to say thou:h groceries. would it be fair to say though we _ groceries. would it be fair to say though we are — groceries. would it be fair to say though we are looking _ groceries. would it be fair to say though we are looking for- groceries. would it be fair to say though we are looking for a - though we are looking for a barometer of the us

hitha herzog with us now.ng number when you hear 40% go into debt to buy this stuff, but they have to get this stuff. what do they do? >> it is a staggering number, neil. and when you think about how much actual debt the american consumer is carrying, which is around $17.3 trillion as of august 2024, it makes sense. and so we definitely i saw the american consumer put more on their credit card over the last couple years. but where this gets to be problematic is that those interest rates continue to rise, and the american consumer can't pay off their credit cards in full. so it becomes this endless cycle of just trying to keep up. neil: so what's the accurate picture? we got one thing on consumer sentiment that was released in the middle of the day yesterday that showed people are feeling a little better about themselves and where they're going. home depot and some of the others, walmart if most notably saying the guidance looks good, the consumer's cautious but not completely tapped out. they might be just sor