i'm joined now by former met detective chief superintendent kevin hurley.uss two tier policing and whether it exists or not? what do you think .7 what do you think? >> well, at the moment, the statements are that it doesn't exist, but certainly in my 30 odd years in police and time since, i can say that when deaung since, i can say that when dealing with certain ethnic minority groups, police do walk on eggshells, they do back off. and they're extremely cautious in how they deal with them. so from my point of view, at a strategic level, it exists at the operational level. police officers, this is the guys and girls on the street. they get on with the job, such as they see it in front of them, but they also do so in the mindset that if they are caught on video, in a situation that can be misinterpreted or makes them look bad, especially with an ethnic minority, they know they'll be thrown under the bus. so of course there is not an official policy on it, but it has for many years been one of be very cautious or back off or withdraw or don't use excessive or

. - let's speak to kevin hurley, a former senior public order commander for the metropolitan police.ing us. can i get your reaction, please, do what he saw yesterday and into last night? it is a predictable outcome of the offence of last week where people have conflated a whole lot of issues, the tragic murder of the three children and others seriously injured and in some ways, police gas lighting on the background of that person. lighting on the background of that erson. y lighting on the background of that erson. , i. lighting on the background of that erson. , lighting on the background of that erson. y . person. sorry, did you say police as person. sorry, did you say police gas lighting _ person. sorry, did you say police gas lighting them? _ person. sorry, did you say police gas lighting them? yes, - person. sorry, did you say police gas lighting them? yes, gas - gas lighting them? yes, gas lighting--- — gas lighting them? yes, gas lighting... what _ gas lighting them? yes, gas lighting... what do - gas lighting them? yes, gas lighting... what do you - gas lighting them? yes, ga

now, my police, kevin hurley. what's been said there, there is a sense that in kevin's professional opinion, as a former serving officer himself, high up within the service, that actually people like him with his opinion are pushed out because of the fact that they think diversity and inclusion has absolutely skewed the priorities of the police force into being creating several tiers of policing. how do we actually combat that? how do we? because the reason being, you could argue, was that in the 19805, could argue, was that in the 1980s, there were the riots by black people over what they argued and what some, many argue were justifiable concerns of, unfair policing towards them. now, though in reverse, you're seeing white people saying, well, hang on, what's happened in the 1980s is happening to us now. so you know what? firstly, do you accept that that's the case? and secondly, how do we address it? who wants to come in first? >> i think that yes, i absolutely accept it and i agree with it. and i think what he'

i'm joined now by former senior police officer in the met police, kevin hurley. m going to ask you a question that i think probably most people are asking. why haven't these two brothers been charged and what's going on there? you know , it's going on there? you know, it's been a while. we've seen some footage. why haven't they been charged? >> well, i can't answer that quite frankly, it's a no brainer. the evidence is absolutely solid of the main protagonist, the poor, innocent one with the boxer's broken nose, who managed to punch two policewomen, break one's nose, and then punch a policeman in the back of the head and strangle him to the floor. it's as clear as the face and you know as your face or whatever, that the guy did it. i mean, what's going on? and this is an interesting thing for me about this particular lawyer. anwar is quite recently he was on, video saying from the river to the sea demonstration pro gaza . so why demonstration pro gaza. so why is this lawyer choosing at this volatile moment to start to stoke up allegations of racism and anti—police

let's speak now to kevin hurley, a former detective chief superintendent from the city of london policeer police and crime commissioner for surrey. thank you forjoining us. what's your reaction to how events played out last night. it slightly, then it has been but what's been the policing response so far? its given olice a policing response so far? its given police a little _ policing response so far? its given police a little bit _ policing response so far? its given police a little bit of _ policing response so far? its given police a little bit of breathing - police a little bit of breathing space. this would have been a massive scramble to pull people away from normal patrol duties in their local areas and filling the part—time role with a dress up for public order duties. the people you see up the streets with the helmets and shields are normal police who worked the streets. there will be a bit of relief there and they will probably keep the numbers up for the next few days. which is a burden on every single community around the country where you will not have the response police,

. >> well, let's get the thoughts now of the former met police detective chief superintendent kevin hurley statement to saying time and time again, year and year again, what is supposed to be a well in the case of yesterday, a family day ended up with stabbings . ended up with stabbings. >> yeah. well, i mean, it's i'm not surprised because i police the carnival for many years . the carnival for many years. indeed. i used to be on an undercover arrest squad for a number of a number of years. so i'm used to the violence that goes on there. >> most people are not aware. >> most people are not aware. >> you don't see much of it because the crowds are so dense. >> it's so noisy. >>— >> it's so noisy. >> and on the family day, like we're seeing there now, it's absolutely fine. >> but as things liven up towards the evening and certainly tonight, it becomes pretty much an unpoliced , pretty much an unpoliced, lawless place, you certainly would not see me personally at the carnival from now on, because i don't regard it as a safe place to go , safe place to go, >> what's the solution here, then ,

london police, kevin hurley. kevin, thank you very much for joining me. this afternoon.effective ? effective? >> well, it depends on how long it goes on the police have not got an inexhaustible supply of officers. and to put this into context, when we had the rioting in 2011, it took 17,000 public order officers drafted in from the top of scotland to the west of call from the west of cornwall to calm things down in london. but at the moment i think we're talking about having 4000 or 6000 to try and cover the whole country . so at the the whole country. so at the moment it hasn't really kicked off in quite the way it once did in 2011, so perhaps they may well be able to moderate some of that. but frankly, the police have not got the tools to deal with this kind of widespread disorder. it's all been talk about, yes, we're going to arrest people and put them before the courts, but the reality of it is only 400 arrested out of thousands and thousands of people that isn't a big deterrent. what affects people if they're going to do something wrong , whatever it is, something w

former met chief detective superintendent kevin hurley will be here with his perspective on this week'se here to weigh in with their first hand experience of how prisons should really work. we've once again got 90 minutes of punchy politics lined up for you this morning, so do not think of going anywhere . think of going anywhere. what? to go through the papers this morning. i'm delighted to be joined now by political correspondent at the spectator . correspondent at the spectator. james heale james, lovely to see you on this sunny sunday. so let's discuss the aftermath of the riots. sunday times has

former met detective chief superintendent kevin hurley joins us now . to see joins us now. kevin, good to see you this morning. i mean, look positive. that's the things seem to be dying off. but what seems very, very clear in all of this is it's a simmering pot. still and people really i mean, especially the police, the authorities, they can't afford to take their foot off the gas on this one, can they? >> you're absolutely right. the underlying conditions that brought so many people out on the street in the protests, which unfortunately have turned violent in so many places , those violent in so many places, those conditions are still there and at the same time, the situation that's led to lots of, if you like, counter demonstrations and groups of pakistani heritage, youth in the northern cities coming out on the street, all of those conditions are still there. the places are still socially deprived, they were never levelled up, and people are as you've just indicated, concerned about the uncontrolled immigration and some their perceptions of two tier