bookseller in the atlantic council lobby directly. after this event where, you can get your copy signed as well. i also encourage any you listening virtually or here in the to buy an absolutely remarkable book that stuart previously president carter the white house years it's one of the most compelling presidential biographies i have ever read and again combines ambassador keen experience his keen ability to report. but it's also beautiful capability. so thank you, ambassador eizenstat. thank you, stu, for your service to our country and the world for producing this important work. everybody go buy it. everybody go read it and to our speakers and audience for joining us. great. [applause] >> well, thank you very much, fred, welcome everyone to the atlantic council. president biden said that the world is at an inflection point as united states, allies and partners face geopolitical landscape, the perhaps the most dangerous since world war ii, wars in ukraine and gaza, challenge the u.s.-led order, so there's no more important time for d

i'm president, ceo of the atlantic council. and it's my pleasure to you all joining us here in, our headquarters personally and i'd also like to welcome all of viewers of c-span booktv to today's and the title. the event is the art of diplomacy historic that changed the world, which is drawn from the title of a brilliant book by stuart. so let me first quote the late henry kissinger from his foreword to the book. quote the great statesman and diplomat develops a vision and takes a people from the present to a future that they have neither experi ence nor imagined. the process by which the statesman, the statesman that is diplomacy diplomacy. and he, of course, urges us people to read this book as a as a valuable and necessary primer. there's also a forward from secretary of state james baker. i don't know anyone still that has a a forward from kissinger and a preface from baker. so congratulations alone that and now let me quote myself in the endorsement to stu's book. my reads a brilliant analysis the ins and outs of diplomatic

aggression, it's also important to add, there was an interesting discussion on this topic today at the atlantic council speakers, debra kagan, a senior advisor at the atlantic council, she said that russia, in fact, trying to constantly talk about the fact that this is a war of the west against russia, and not a war of ukraine against russia, it actually underestimates ukraine, and in fact it was, it helped ukraine to escape from the russian kurdish operation, as it stated , putin did not expect that the event would allow ukraine to act so sharply on chicken moreover, she says, the united states and president biden should now focus on providing more weapons. john herbs, who was also a participant in this discussion, the former ambassador of the united states to ukraine, said the following that russia, to. it is also necessary for america to work on the next aid package for ukraine for next year. the publication writes to the politician that they have already promised about it. during his visit to kyiv, congressmen addressed zelenskyi, and representatives of helsinska appealed to biden as well commissio

so far. rachel reserve is a senior fellow at the atlantic council. think tank. i asked her what she made of tim was a speech. well i think for tim was he wasn't trying to get a new message across. i think he was trying to reach to uncommitted voters who may not be as familiar with who we is. and that's who his method was directed out. he played up for his persona as an every man, just a guy from the midwest who served in the military coach football who taught at the local high school the kind of person that many americans, many uncommitted potentially americans on registered americans could identify with kind of person you recognize as your neighbor, your neighbor, and he really threw, i think a personal story here, especially with his families, hardship, and struggle. um, when it came to starting a family, there was that viral moment where his family stood up in tears. so i think that's really what he was go last night and he hit it out of the park. and tonight we're going to hear from kimberly harris as she is expected to tell her story to the nation in the wo

ben: thank you, john herbst and peter dickinson, both part of the atlantic council. indeed, for both of you for your analysis of what's going on in ukraine with their incursion into russia. you're watching the bbc news. do stay with us. announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... financial services firm, raymond james. announcer: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ announcer: "usa day" calls it, "arguably the best bargain in streaming." that's because the free pbs app lets you watch the best of pbs anytime, anywhere. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ announcer: funding for presentation of this program

senior fellow of the atlantic council and global affairs analyst. thank you for your time. entagon u.s. defense secretary has ordered a guided missile submarine to the middle east. he has told an aircraft carrier group to sail to the area more quickly. the deployment of additional fighter jets and warships was announced earlier this month as washington seeks to bolster its presence following an escalation in violence between israel and iran and its aies hamas and hezbollah. meanwhile, leaders of the u.k., france and germany have been renewing calls for the immediate resumption of cease-fire negotiations saying the fighting must end and all hostages must be released. israel says it will send a team of negotiators to any new talks. hamas says mediators should simply implement the truce peace plan put forward by u.s. president biden last month. a sticking point appears to be an israeli insistence displaced palestinians are screened as they return to the north of gaza. let's speak to jazmine who is a political analyst and former middle east advisor at the u.s. department of defe

so i would expect that to sort of change between here and november, rachel rizzo with the atlantic council as always we appreciate your time and your analysis. rachel. thank you. i. let's take a look now. some of the other stories that are making headlines around the world. venezuela's supreme court has ratified president nicholas maderos. victory in july is disputed election. the court, which is packed with the juror of loyalist said voting tallies, published online, showing he lost by a landslide, were for the opposition. his accused with 0 of stealing. the booked at least 8 migraines drowned when their boat capsized while crossing the torino river from serbia. to boss me. around 25 people were on board most from syria. many migrants use the so called the belkin route through serbia to reach western your and is rarely delegation has arrived in cairo, egypt to a head of peace talks aimed at ending 10 months of war. and gossip. negotiations are set to resume saturday. us gyptian and guitar mediators are trying to salvage a deal that would pause the fighting and free the remaining hostages,

from the atlantic council, this is about hour. good morning, everyone. od afternoon to those of us going online. take it away, harvey. harvey: thank you very much. do we have the slides? we do not have the slides. ok. the material i'm presenting today comes out of a book called "failures of russia and putin," and its aim is to show that the real degradation in the whole realm of areas and russia has happened on his watch. my own part of it is in the capital, but i'm going to talk about today the demographics, and it also looks at health, education, science, and technology, and again, and every one of these rounds, things were a lot worse than anybody could have imagined. i also need a disclaimer. i take no pleasure in talking about this. i lived in the soviet union for a year or twice. i ran a foundation that gave money to scientists from the former soviet union. i've been involved in a lot of programs, and living there in the 1980's, i got to know a handful of people who became ministers and russia's government, and handful who became deputy ministers, s

the former neighbor of the senior advisor with the atlantic council really good to hear your thoughts on this. thank you. well, still ahead on al jazeera, counting the cost of pro test, how businesses in nigeria all resulting off the days of demonstrations. the in depth analysis of the face. headline, what's strategic purpose? do you think this assassination serves israel informed opinions, people who have been 18 years old seem to be given a chance to pass the bolt particularly banked. russia has defended the war crane as a defensive war. inside story, house, fluid change, the security relationship between both countries on out jersey or the magic has of course has to has this chinese academic victor dialed 12 percent of the people to taiwan, say they want to unify that. it's not up to the people in taiwan to decide about the one to on the policy. exploring. china is development, i'm emissions. is he now president for like a true dictate? how can you explain for find the transform ation of china? if you have to take this, you had to head on that just to get out the mood and untold st

now he's the atlantic council, non resident senior fellow for the middle east for the middle east programs and joins us from new york city. a welcome to dw shuttle israel has read just, i'm the outline that fighting was on many fronts, including gauze and lab, and on iran against iran. and its proxy is how long kennedy's rattles withstands such a prolonged series of conflicts. it will be with you. i like anything else. i think that's the question of degrees. obviously the you know, the goal of israel's adversary, this is to overwhelm its defenses. the same time i think we've seen in practice that i, you know, is all maintains up for middle bound to layer defense system has been effective in stopping pretty much prologic stands, you know, without stopping. all casual damage obviously haven't done by coming to tax over the past the past many months of also result not alone. and as we saw, you know, most uh, most poignantly in april when uh, the united states regional allies, the french germany as well. once people together put together this college, we're calling reading attack of hundreds o

be seen but - we do see front russia commitment peter dickinson, editor of ukraine alert at the atlantic council across the uk, this is bbc news. now, they were only supposed to be in space for some eight days, but now two american astronauts could end up at the international space station for more than eight months. they couldn't return to earth as originally planned because their boeing spacecraft has been dealing with a number of problems. the pair originally left earth back in earlyjune. our north american correspondent peter bowes sent this report. three, two, one, ignition. and lift—off of- starliner and atlas 5. it was expected to be a short stay at the international space station for butch wilmore and sunita williams. but the test pilots for boeing's new starliner are in for a longer trip than they bargained for. eight days could turn into eight months because their capsule has been deemed unsafe to return to earth. problems with its propulsion system emerged during starliner�*s initial approach to the space station injune, and it still hasn't been fixed. no decision has been made yet, b

he is a senior director of the atlantic council's eurasia center and a former us ambassador to ukraine council as the editor of ukraine alert. thank you for being with us. the ukrainians are saying this is all about future peace negotiations, and achieving a fair peace agreement, but there doesn't, to be honest, look like any kind of peace talks are on the horizon at all. what look like any kind of peace talks are on the horizon at all. what you need to understand _ are on the horizon at all. what you need to understand is _ are on the horizon at all. what you need to understand is that - are on the horizon at all. what you need to understand is that six - are on the horizon at all. what you need to understand is that six or i need to understand is that six or eight or even ten weeks, there has been a fairamount eight or even ten weeks, there has been a fair amount of talk about a ceasefire in place, or peace negotiations, partly fuelled by statements coming from moscow, but also having some, you might say, receptivity amongst those who have been willing to throw ukraine under the bus

melinda haring, senior fellow at the eurasia council at the atlantic council.al has taken place for the first of three young girls fatally stabbed at a taylor swift dance class in the north west town of southport. the service for nine—year—old alice dasilva aguiar was held at st patrick's catholic church in the town, where her parents were joined by family and friends. hundreds of people lined the streets as alice's coffin was brought to the church in a horse—drawn carriage. ribbons and balloons were tied to lamp posts and garden walls, as fiona trott reports from southport. a public display of love. trying to ease a parent's private pain. alice's father carried her on his shoulder. but few fathers or mothers have the strength to speak on a day like this. instead, their words were read by alice's uncle. you moved our world with your confidence and empathy. being around you was a privilege. we cherished every milestone. you completed us. little alice knew nothing about politics and division. how confronting it was acknowledged here today. you have shown great co

let's speak to peter dickinson, editor of the atlantic council's ukrainealert service. you are seeing and hearing in the capital.— hearing in the capital. good morning- — hearing in the capital. good morning. yes, _ hearing in the capital. good morning. yes, it _ hearing in the capital. good morning. yes, it is - hearing in the capital. good morning. yes, it is another| hearing in the capital. good - morning. yes, it is another pretty grim morning. yesterday was far worse, frankly. yesterday was the largest air assault by russia since the beginning of the war by most counts. today, people are still picking up the pieces, still trying to assess the damage. there have been sporadic electricity blackouts across kyiv and across ukraine, in fact, since yesterday morning. we have no power where i am in the city at the moment. many places are without power and also without water. so it is quite a challenging time. ukraine is used to the idea of rolling blackouts. we've had this for a long period since the early months of war, in fact. russia has made ukraine's civilian infrast

you can get that online at the atlantic council's website. rley, we are looking forward to your book. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

you can get that online at the atlantic council's website. harley, we are looking forward to your book. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> today, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly round of campaign coverage, providing a one-stop shop to discuss what candidates are because the country are saying to voters, along with first-hand accounts from political reporters, updated poll numbers, fundraising data, and campaign ads. today at 7:30 p.m. eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org, or download as a podcast on c-span now, our free mobile app, or wherever you get your podcasts. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. we will have more live coverage on c-span tonight. democratic presidential candidate vice president kama harris campaigns in glendale, arona, at 8:00 p.m. eastern. former president and repubca presidential nominee donald trump speaks to voters at a llin bozeman, montana. that's at 10:00 p.m. eastern.

so i would expect that to sort of change between here and november, rachel rizzo with the atlantic council. as always we appreciate your time and your analysis. rachel, thank thanks man. and is really delegation as arrived in cairo, according to these rarely public broadcast or con, no talks aimed at reaching a ceasefire and gaza are due to resume on saturday. but it's not clear whether that will happen. israel has also launched a wave of attacks across the gauze and strip the last run guns. the health authorities has at least 27 people were killed in the strikes. egypt guitar in the us are trying to negotiate an agreement between is really into mos over israel's military presence in gauze once the war ends. a moss. as you may remember, carried out the october 7th terror attacks and israel but dw correspondence, the legs come so joins me now from jerusalem. felix, what more do we know at this point? and that's an interesting question because at the moment we were up until i would say 2 hours ago, we were all under the impression that those stocks are not going to take place. that's all. we

there is discussion within the atlantic council that the slow russian response may indicate hints ofubordination at this point. because it is difficult to explain the almost complete impotent response to the ukrainian invasion. first of all, the ukrainian troops blasted by what was supposed to be highly effective barriers and secondly you are not seeing much resistance among the general population and law enforcement. there hasn't been one—shot reportedly fired from a police station. also, ithink reportedly fired from a police station. also, i think this slow reaction of the security forces, if thatis reaction of the security forces, if that is the case, may indicate that the generals are telling put in that enough is enough. i don't want to take this theory too far but it seems to be making more sense. the other thing is it is very interesting who vladimir putin put interesting who vladimir putin put in charge of the operation, his former head of security. he is also the fellow who was in charge of the evacuation and annexation of crimea. he has quite the rap sheet. that evacuation

you can get that online at the atlantic council's website. rley, we are looking forward to your book. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: looking at a live shot of the mar-a-lago resort in palm beach, florida, where president trump will be speaking shortly with reporters gathered here. you are watching live coverage on c-span. announcer: c-span will be live here at mar-a-lago in palm beach, florida when president trump begins his remarks. we will look at some of today's washington journal. please be aware of the numbers for now. that is our backup system. i wanted to ask you about what is going on in the middle east. there is a lot of tensions right now. get us up to speed about how we got to this point and what is happening right now. guest: sure. it depends how -- it depends on how you want to start. the current cycle of escalation comes amid larger iran israel tensions since october 7. the islamic republic of

i was at the atlantic council dinner last fall during the u.n.tings when she went up to the chancellor who was sitting at the head table, as was zelenskyy and other people. i saw ella milman go up. now we know that she went to him and said, please, help my son. she knew that he was the key person. that's when the first hint came through her to the americans, to the state department that maybe krasikov could be in play. let's talk about the navalny people. in fact, you know another one of the great dissidents involved in this, in the tragedy and the success, the release of kara-murza. he was twice poisoned by the kremlin. he didn't come back to andrews. he went to the german hospital, an expert hospital for treating him. they treated him and navalny before. you know this better than i. he is well enough, he will be rejoined with his family there. he is going to, perhaps have a news conference. talk to us about him. he wasn't at andrews last night. >> just like evan gershkovich, you were talking about even as he is being released, he is trying to d

, some kind of verbal balancing act, that we prohibit, and there was some kind of event at the atlantic councilay, and there was a former ambassador, yes, who is better. that is, from the availability of what was in the warehouses of the ministry of defense, especially such systems, there are missiles, the same, well, they have abrams. i would not call this some kind of reorientation of russia, but i would say that this is a logical result of not just the desire of russia and azerbaijan to take advantage of the situation, especially in what concerns this famous north-south corridor, which of course will give a huge boost to economic development, cooperation, and the result of the policy that is being carried out on... russia, but a dark shadow has run, so to speak, in the relations, this is absolutely obvious, and we should not hide it, i mean, so to speak, in our circle, we... politicians, we discuss what is happening, and share it with our audience, our audience, yes, so let's say, but, but, but the relations between russia, armenia, the russian and armenian peoples remain friendly, remain ba

carmiel arbit of the atlantic council will be with us. to get a check on the markets. amy morris has a look in washington.

and that includes being head of it's iran and research branch is now with the atlantic council and specializes in the middle east national security intelligence. i'm happy to welcome back to the program. danny, it's a trend of it. stand it, it's good to see you again. it's good to have you on the program. you know, as well as i do, the middle east has been a power cag for a long time. what do these 2 killings at the top of his below and tomas what do they mean for the risk of it all? well wider we're breaking. yeah. well them send you having the i think that the as the describe the thing right to so we owned advantage of uh, severe escalation and even the region of the war i think goes to events of putting us closer and closer as off only those to advance by the sweats coming out from taylor, i'm and tomorrow we're here from the secretary general. first on this run up, talking about that as well. the nice thing is that we are, it's something it won't be contained in a way that maybe some intervene bind to us or the original superpower. and i think that the escalation is almost imminent. and i

industrial complex, which it is, because it's funded by arms companies and stuff, places like the atlantic council in the us, here you got chatham house and iiss and and others, they all uh funded by these private the private sector nato foreign ministries to promote a certain view, but and their view of the world gets into the media without any analysis of who's funding them, so if the guardian quote chattom house or iiss say funded by ba systems, of course they should, but they don't, and there's a there's a propensity to ignore it when it's like liberal institutions so-called, um, but yet they there's this whole thing about dark russian dark money or or right-wing dark money which also exists obviously, but but we need to the liberal center is the kind of intellectual powerhouse of empire uh and we that's why you're not even really allowed to touch it, but that needs to change and i think is changing, so i am hopeful, i think that there's a lot of. uh interest and understanding about the major issues of the day, and and i'll give you what, i'll finish with this example, look at the other day, m

i spoke to melinda haring, senior fellow at the eurasia center of the atlantic council, who gave me her continuing incursion. so i think zelensky has a number of reasons, and he hasn't made them apparent, so we're only speculating, but it was only a week ago that the headlines said that moscow was on the march and ukraine was on its back foot in the donbas, so this incursion into kursk is a way to show the capability of the ukrainian army and it's a way to change the headlines. so i think that's one piece of it. others have speculated that the ukrainians want to seize russian territory in exchange for a potential negotiations. that's another potential hypothesis. these are all guesses, though, but i think in general, we can conclude the ukrainians are not going to sit on their haunches and wait for the russians to attack. they have to have these sort of asymmetrical responses in order to change what had been a pretty bad situation for the ukrainian side. in england, the funeral has taken place for the first of three young girls fatally stabbed at a taylor swift dance class in the north

alissa pavia is associate director of north africa programme at the atlantic council. n the region. the potential for repercussions and for escalation in the region really, at this point, largely depend on the way in which iran decides to respond. we know for a fact that iran will respond — it will respond in the next 48—72 hours — because the iran supreme leader, ali khamenei, has made that announcement. and iran has to respond, because it has to show that it is still a power in the region that can defend itself and can defend its proxies. however, it's not a question of if it responds, but the manner in which it responds. iran does have the capability of hitting key military and civilian infrastructure in israel. the question is really whether it wants to do so, because if it does, then that will lead to a wider repercussion, wider escalation in the region. and if you know, past iranian actions can give us any indication as to where this will lead, we can expect iran to strike in a more contained manner. so if we think of the barrage, the missile barrage from april th

let's speak to michael bociurkiw a senior fellow at the atlantic council welcome to the programme.t if you can talk us through the scale of this russian attack? ,., ., the scale of this russian attack? h, ., ., , the scale of this russian attack? ,., ., ., , , ., the scale of this russian attack? ., , ~ attack? good to be with you. a very massive — attack? good to be with you. a very massive one, _ attack? good to be with you. a very massive one, yesterday i attack? good to be with you. a l very massive one, yesterday was one of them are silent days since the start of russia's full—scale invasion, we are talking about 200 incoming, a mix of missiles and iranian built drones, far to the west and north as well but especially here in kyiv as well. just in the past few hours and the past hour or so a loud explosion was heard here in kyiv. i don't know if there was a defence striking a russian rocket in the air or a direct hit but we do know that critical infrastructure has been hit very hard, in fact one of the optics struck yesterday was a 408 are what kyiv hydroelectric power plant,

let's speak to senior fellow at the atlantic council and former us ambassador gina abercrombie—winstanleyus. let's start with events earlier today. both sides say this isn't it, this is the first stage of their actions, but also saying they don't want an all—out war, though they are preparing for that possibility. how do both sides and those invested in this conflict try to de—escalate tensions? thank you. well, there has always been a two sided battle, one of actual events on the ground, and a war of words. so the words, of course, give both sides leeway to do more or not more after this round of retaliatory attacks. both sides have heeded the cautions of the international community in general, certainly the united states, with regard to israel, and the partners in the region with regard to hezbollah and likely iran. with regard to not escalating this beyond, we cannot overlook the fact that missteps happen all the time and can happen. it is likely a attack that killed the israeli children in the north, that they were not the target, and that is just an example of how this round got star

and this article, the washington post sites, the atlantic councils digit or digital forensic research lab, a central arm of the censorship, industrial complex to falsely claim that wyatt read has deep ties to iranian media . deep ties because he allegedly did some freelance work for them 4 years ago when the funds the atlanta council, while the washington post doesn't tell you that the united states government funds that the state department, it takes money from the arms industry, the, the big 5 manufacturers that are making a literal killing and ukraine as well as off the genocide in gaza. it's funded by the united arab emirates, an adversary of iran. and so i wouldn't say that i have this right now and i made a deal. they made a deal with a run. it's all broken down as regard syria to actually come to think of it on the side of the washington post. they did give a what read a chance to they obviously go to journalism school to do this. i understand they told him to, to call his lawyer. the initial email that y read received from joseph mann is demonstrably mendacious. washington pos

let's speak to michael bociurkiw, a global affairs analyst and senior fellow at the atlantic council.do you think the point of this incursion into russian territory is by ukraine?— incursion into russian territory is b ukraine? ~ , , ., by ukraine? well, is becoming more clear day by — by ukraine? well, is becoming more clear day by day. _ by ukraine? well, is becoming more clear day by day, and _ by ukraine? well, is becoming more clear day by day, and that _ by ukraine? well, is becoming more clear day by day, and that is - by ukraine? well, is becoming more clear day by day, and that is for - clear day by day, and that is for the ukrainians, through military means, which will evolve into political means, to push mr putin back to the negotiating table and also to divert russian manpower and equipment from the front line to the kursk area. the wall streetjournal reported this morning that us officials have confirmed that some russian forces have been moved. so i think the longer the ukrainians stay and the more land they seize, pressure will build on mr putin, especially when the war

let's speak to michael bociurkiw, a global affairs analyst and senior fellow at the atlantic council think—tank. this is clearly a bold move by the ukrainians. is it one that could backfire? is it a bit of a gamble? it could backfire. the numbers are mind—boggling. iooo it could backfire. the numbers are mind—boggling. 1000 square kilometres at least. that is the size of dallas, texas in the united states. a very big city. around 44 settlements. numbers are trending up to about a quarter of a million evacuees. but yes, my big fear, knowing what we do offer russian track record and playback, is that they may retaliate not in conventional military ways, but by doing something disastrous or stupid, like deliberate accidents at the nuclear power plant which is in russian control. the other day, we saw smoke rising from there which are really concerned the iaea. so, you could probably expect something like that to happen if ukrainians press further on. you like that to happen if ukrainians press further on.— like that to happen if ukrainians press further on. you are saying that there _ pr

i'm joined by michael bociurkiw — a global affairs analyst and senior fellow at the atlantic council is based in ukraine, butjoins us today from palermo in italy. thank you for your time. the foreign ministry spokesperson for russia has said that ukraine understands perfectly well that the recent attacks make no sense from a military point of view. is she right? is there no military purpose to this? . , . , ., right? is there no military purpose to this? . , ., , ., , to this? rarely anything that comes out from her _ to this? rarely anything that comes out from her is _ to this? rarely anything that comes out from her is to _ to this? rarely anything that comes out from her is to be _ to this? rarely anything that comes out from her is to be believed. - out from her is to be believed. absolutely there is a military point to be made now after so many days and that is what the ukrainians did and that is what the ukrainians did and i do suspect they had weapon intelligence to do this with but they showed that the russians are very weak internally. they have devoted so much of their res

i spoke earlier to michael bociurkiw — a global affairs analyst and senior fellow at the atlantic council i asked about his take on the russian ministry of foreign affairs spokeswoman�*s statement —— maria zakharova —— who claimed that "there is no military purpose" of ukraine's incursion. ra rely rarely anything that comes out of my coin is to believed. but there is a military point. i do suspect they had western intelligence to do this with. they showed that the russians are very weak internally. they have devoted so much of their resources, both in terms of manpower and equipment, to the ukraine and russia front line so that they are very weak internally. not that long ago the wagner group made that point as well. it's a huge military as well as pr win. well. it's a huge military as well as pr win-— well. it's a huge military as well as pr win. . �*, , ., as pr win. that's interesting what ou said as pr win. that's interesting what you said about — as pr win. that's interesting what you said about having _ as pr win. that's interesting what you said about having western - you said abou