i want to bring in former us attorney harry litman to discuss harry great to see you. so as you saw when kaitlan held up the page, you can't really see very much. i mean, but there are a whole lot of pages of a lot of redacted information so it was the goal here to say? >> you can't see it, but look, there's a whole lot here not exactly. so you're right, 95% of this as blank pages and it's frustrating to us. we don't have the juiciest things. we don't have grand jury transcripts. we don't have interviews with fbi, but there there's a reason that had already been demarcated as sensitive in the case and as kaitlan says, this is a very specific purpose. it is to try to anticipate anything that could be immune. so jack smith has to give some thought too. well, what happens in our rebuttal case at trial if we want to use some of this stuff to robust their evidence, you don't want to introduce it and all of a sudden have everything stopped and have to go up and down again, smith and chutkan share the goal only one more trip up and down the federal courts. and it's for that r

attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman. with me at the table msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. let me read a little bit more to you all. on page 4, quote, at its core the defendant donald trump's scheme was a private criminal effort in his capacity as a candidate the defendant used deceit to target every stage of the electoral process, which through the constitution the electoral contact and state laws includes the state's notification to the federal government of the selection of their representative electors based on the popular vote in the state. the meeting of those electors to cast their votes consistent with the popular vote and congress' counting of the electors' votes at a certification proceeding. at its core the scheme was a private criminal effort. that feels like one among many of the headlines, andrew weissmann. >> nicolle, i don't like to jump to something that sounds like hyperbole, but there is no question that there are repeated bombshells in this submission and i cannot tell you that i've finished the

harry litman is a former u.s.y for the western district of pennsylvania and he joins me now. i said to someone today that tina peters, poor woman didn't get herself elected president, so she had to face the law like everyone else. >> she actually ran for secretary of state, but she did allow that breach by an associate of mike lindell. what the judge is also referring to, she went all over the country and what is telling and really dovetails with trump and vance as she continued and continued and continued to propagate this all over the country, in fact abandoning her job when she did it. that is what really made the judge irate. so it is not just the original sin, but the complete unrepentant sand that of course is also characteristic of one of the candidates for president. >> and in fact jack smith in that filing talks about promising pardons to folks who stormed the capital. celebrating political prisoners in a bunch of ways as evidence of the complete lack of remorse and the sort of total criminal mind of some

. >> all right, harry litman. >>> j.d. vance is peddling a alternate reality in many outright lies he tried to get away with that the debate. the debate. >>> they really believe climate change is serious, what they would do is more manufacturing and more energy production in the united states, and that's not what they are doing. if you want to make the environment cleaner you have to invest in more energy production. raven built a nuclear facility, one, in the past 40 years. >> j.d. vance lies with such ease, so smoothly, even if you're paying attention and you know the score sometimes, you don't know you are being lied to. that drives me insane. that moment in particular. here is the truth, the united states under president biden and kamala harris produces more energy than any other nation on earth and more energy than the u.s. ever had in the past including the trump administration. the biden department of energy helped open the second of two nuclear reactors in georgia in may. the first nuclear plants in the u.s. in 30

attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman. juanita tolliver is back with us as well. the lawsuit plainly states virginia's, quote, unlawful actions here have likely confused, deterred and removed u.s. citizens who are fully eligible to vote. so where does this go from here? >> well, it goes to a district court, which ought to apply the law and tell virginia to stand down. but it's just as you say. and the first point to note is this non-citizen idea. juanita just mentioned it in georgia. it's the sort of flavor of the year this year that republicans are using around the country in different ways to sort of get at trimming the rolls. what happened in virginia, glenn youngkin has ordered a process where if the dmv has some inconsistent data they identify people. and by the way, it's clear, there are basically no non-citizens voting. but that's the premise. they'll identify people with a discrepancy. and then they've got to prove that they're okay to vote. so they're either going to be -- we're talking about naturalized citizens.

and let's bring in former us attorney harry litman to talk a little bit about this. some something else read from this filing with someone who's anonymized here, harry, talking about how well tabulating votes on november 4, p5 person five, a campaign employee, agent and coconspirator of the defendant tried to sow confusion when the ongoing vote count at the tfc center in detroit, michigan looked unfavorable for the defendant, donald trump there when a colleague at the tcf center told person five quote, we think about your votes heavily in biden's favor is right? person five responded, find a reason. it isn't. give me options to file litigation, even if it is when the colleagues suggested that there was about to be unrest reminiscent of the brooks brothers riot, a violent effort to stop the vote count in florida after the 2000 presidential election, prison five responded make them riot. and do it. what do you think about these kinds of details and what this is going to mean in this case incendiary, but this is not just what it means in the case. it's what it means in t