more on the commercial estate market, i went to bring in the founder and ceo of united capital john deveneyings like cms, you have been calling for a considered implosion of office building collateral. before we get to which cities those are, why is that with interest rates heading lower and transactions in the space picking up? john: one of the biggest forces are the 10 year treasury moving from 2% to 4.5%. just that alone the appraisals from 10 years ago at a 4.5 cap rate to go to a 6.5 cap rate today. for the best properties, that winds up being a decline of 25 to 30%. these are huge headwinds for these companies to refinance. inflation made all the property taxes and expenses go up. inflation made the buildings go down as well. we don't need to get into work at home. work at home is a big issue for the whole country that has led to a lower occupancy some of the observations i have are the trickiest for me to try to analyze and forecast into the future. what i have now deemed for 15 of the cities i can talk about, what i consider to be flawed social policies. scarlet: you're talking abou